Failed CC, 15mth DS is now scared of cot - please help!

[DaddyCool]

We have a big problem. 15 mth old ds used to settle in his cot at 7 pm every evening. We would simply place him in his cot and walk out the room. He would fall asleep within minutes but he would wake in the night, once or twice.

To encourage him to sleep through the night, we tried CC (big mistake). It failed miserably. He was so worked up on one occasion he was actually sick. Within a few days he got ill, gastro-enteritis and a cold on top of that so we abandoned the CC and brought him in the bed with us.

Now ds seems scared of his cot and screams uncontrollably when we leave the room. It?s impossible to settle him. He can even fall deep asleep in our arms but when we lower him in, he immediately wakes up and cries intensely. We can spend between 6pm ? 9pm trying to settle him and even when he does fall asleep, it?s only for a few hours then I take him in with us.

Please help. How on earth do we repair the damage done by CC and get him back to where he was??

Sorry prefernot, it was the verbal reassurances part of your post that I meant was sort of along the PUPD lines not the actual lifting. I can see your point that it might cause mroe frustration than solve the problem in an older toddler.

Well, other people swear by it but as I said I almost thought it was the cause of the worst bit of dd's sleep problem at that time. And we did it for weeks with things getting worse and worse every time! Nightmare ...

Message withdrawn

I agree with some in thinking that it's not CC that has failed, but because he got ill and was brough into bed with you, it was not given a chance to work. (I hope it doesn't sound like I'm critising your parenting skills!)

I think Richard Ferber's method of solving babies and childrens' sleep problems is highly misunderstood, often by people who have not read his book. Personally I think that yes, CC may not be for everyone, certainly not for you if you cannot cope with hearing your baby cry. But when done correctly and with perseverance CC does work and it's not as cruel as some people make it out to be.

At the end of the day I guess it depends whether you're okay with DS sleeping in your bed with you. If yes then you don't really have a problem and nothing needs to be solved. If you'd rather he sleeps in his own cot then some crying will be inevitable, whichever method you use. I would suggest you wait until your DS is well again before trying anything though.

Good luck.

Yes, I'm waiting until DS is 100%. I will agree that CC didn't get a chance to work properly but since then we have decided that, once DS is 100% well, we will try some alternative methods before CC. I do realise that CC will probably work for us, I just want to try a few other approaches first and that takes time.

His sleep habits, though still not great, are getting a bit better each day as he gets better.

Also, going off what he's been like in the past, I don't think it was the CC that was causing him to be sick. He's cried hard before and he's never been sick. He's not really a very 'sicky' boy. It was his cold and the fact that he's really bunged up so I'm going to let him get over that completely before trying anything.

for a few weeks my 21 month old has been waking up about 1/2 hour after going to bed and crying. At the time he was not well so we got him up, calpol and cuddle - he sat on our lap happily and went to bed an hour later. Next time same thing (no calpol), third night - we realised he just liked the new routine. For about 3 weeks we then had to go in and try and quiet him (he was exhausted but just wouldn't sleep). By trial and error I discovered that if I went and spoke to him as soon as he made a noise (told him it was time for sleep), he gradually went to sleep (first night it took a lot of times), but each night I needed to go in to him less. At the time I was just begging him to sleep. Last night I realised he has gone to sleep without a peep for 2 nights in a row.

We inadvertantly got him into a new routine of not sleeping, and it took a few weeks to convince him the routine was not going to continue - it took perseverence - but it is better for us all that he goes to sleep at bedtime .

You just have to keep at it and it will work - whatever method you choose.

I do the same as Throkenholt. I think WK did this recently with her daughter, will tell her about this thread.

CC is often the fastest approach and depends on your personality. I see it as conflict with my child so I don´t do it to her. I feel as its distressing to me then it is for her too. If you want him in his own room then getting out of bed is much harder. I rarely have to rise from my bed as dd sleeps on her futon which is right next to me.

He can remember things well now so you may have to wait for awhile before trying again and in the meantime going in and out may start doing the trick anyhow. Good damage repair tactic too.

Papillon ... CC does involve going in and out ...

that is correct but I am talking about going into the room immediately and not waiting for a set period of time to resettle a child

so therefore not doing CC but a hopefully quieter in noise approach

But that's the problem, how soon do you go in and out? If you go in once and settle them and they scream as soon as you leave, then do you just go straight back in again? Any kind of going in and out involves waiting a certain amount of time at some point. That's why cc works because it tells you how long to wait. We did it incredibly gradually with dd, went in after 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, to 5 mins max, then doubled it every night. So she was never left entirely alone for longer than 15 minutes maximum though by that time she was usually fast asleep anyway.

Sorry, have only just seen paps message to me about this thread. Here is my story briefly;

Up until dd was 14 months she was an excellent sleeper, all I'd have to do was put her down in her travel cot and walk away and she'd be fine. On the odd night she cried I'd just have to do 10-20 mins of cc and she's sleep again - a dream!!! Then she hit 14 months and all hell broke loose. She wouldn't go in her cot happily at all, she'd start screaming as soon as she touched it. I tried cc and it just didn't work for me. I know the theory that babies sleep eventually - all I can say to that is 'you should have been there'!! One night she screamed for 4 hours and threw up and still absolutely NO sign of sleep so there's was NO way I was carrying on with cc - no hope of rest for mummy or baba!!!

Instead I ditched the cot and got a mattress on the floor for her (she'd roll out of a bed) and the first few nights I fell asleep next to her (was shattered from cc). Then I started my 'sleep plan'. First stage was sit next to her stroking her head until she fell asleep, then leave room quietly. Do the same if she woke up in the night. Next stage (about a month later, this is the slowest of plans) was to sit next to her and not touch her at all. Then after a few weeks its sit by the door until she sleeps, which is where I still am atm. Then it will be leave the door open a bit, then stand in the doorway, then stand outside with the door open, the close it more and more - etc.

The major points to remember are - don't let the baby crawl on you or anywhere they shouldn't be, like playing with the radiator etc - pick them up and lay them down again EVERY time. Also NO eye contact at all.

To those who like cc, this will seem painfully slow and pointless but it's done wonders for me. Ok, dd doesn't officially go to sleep by herself (yet) but she does sleep (normally within an hour of going to bed) and very rarely wakes in the night. So baba gets sleep and so does mummy - that's ALL I care about!!!

Forgot to say, I also love my method because if dd doesn't want to be in bed and cries I can ignore it with no worry because I'm there knowing she's ok and reassuring her but without interacting with her, so not making her reliant on me. For me its perfect.

Have also forgotten to say that I know a lot of toddlers cry to get their own way but dd has (to me) a very distinctive terrified cry and that's how she cried in her cot so couldn't put up with it, whereas I would if it was a demnading angry cry.

I am in a v similar situation to Wk. It hasn't helped getting up in the middle of the night and getting into our bed.

But we do at least have relaxed, calm going to bed times where she stays until the early hours. For us that is bliss!!

I think you may be surprised what a difference a matress on the floor can make, i'm convinced my dd felt happier because she didn't feel caged in (no horrible bars to bash her head on) and the ability to get up if she wishes. But the point is she doesn't try and get out of bed once i have read three stories and got her calm and relaxed i can then step away and she curls over and takes herself to sleep.

WK let me know how you move to the next stage, as i'm too scared for fear of ruining the whole plan!!

my sister does something similar to wobblyknicks... worked for her too, neice is a great sleeper. I have attempted cc once... horendous, nothing cuold persuade me to try it again... particulary as our dd has very painful bellyache/wind at night... its just not appropriate in our case. I would also be inclined to try every other method first. One thing I have found useful is a bedtime ritual... our is... read books downstairs with dimmed light... kiss everyone goodnight, slow walk upstairs, saying goodnight to all the photos on the wall (friends and family)... then we put her teddy to bed (in the washing basket! I dont know why, she invented this bit), a quick sip of juice, then I hold her and walk, talking softly to her about what we could do tomorrow... then when calm, put her down... she never goes off first time, if she cries I pick her up... can be several times... she wants to be in bed as much as i want her there!, after around 10 mins, she's happy to drift off in her cot. She never sleeps through because of her belly ache problems, but at least the going to bed is working for the time being. She wont co-sleep and doesnt need feeding to sleep. This is only a recent pattern, she is only just one year old. I could never try cc again as it was so distressing, there are other ways. Babies do develop temporary irrational fears as well as manipulative abilities and i know i could never be sure that it wasnt a genuine fear. Bedtimes can be awful can't they, you have my sympathies... this last year has been one long bedtime/wind/belly ache nightmare, so have some idea what you're going through. Hope you find something that works for you all.... be kind and gentle, that always works (then when ds in bed, open bottle of wine!) best of luck. xxx

actauuly, that reminds me..for the last 3 weeks my dh has been doing the bedtime routine, so that dd doesnt expect a milk feed from me straight before bed. It was going brilliantly, after the first night of a 20 min protest, he has done bedtime brilliantly. The 2 nights ago it went terribly wrong... all I could hear was a screaming dd.... transpires that she had been made to put her teddy to bed in the laundry basket that had dirty laundry in it! she was very distressed!.... had to come downstairs and start bedtime routine over again, but wouldnt let dh do it... so i did... and again tonught, refused to let dh take her.... and that all over dirty washing!!!!! It really doesnt take much to upset babies! a few years back my friend told me of numerous irrational fears that her son had... I guess its something they all go through and it leaves us parents bewilldered! i shall stop rambling but all i wanted to say was that I'm sure thing will get back to normal if you dont do anthing too drastic and out of the ordinary. let us know how things go.

hi
To answer your question prefernot, yes me or dh go straight back into the room. Sometimes we stay with her till she is asleep. As we all sleep in the same room we have a different night time relationship and like WK said - if they do cry or protest I prefer to be there to parent her through which works very well for us.

DC your ds is at an age common for separation anxiety. Having a bed / mattress in his room next to his cot during this stage for either yourself or dw to sleep on, or to lie on while he goes to sleep will help reassure him and encourage better night time sleeping. As this stage lessens and his night time sleeping improves you can gradually move back to your own room.

It's really interesting to hear how different people find different ways that work for them. I honestly think that's all that matters in the end. So long as all are happy and getting as much sleep as they need then there really isn't a 'right' or 'wrong' way is there? Sometimes I've longed for dd to co-sleep a bit but she's so adamantly not into it. If we put her in bed with us all she does is talk and talk and push us out of the bed! I put her in this morning as she woke at 6.30am and she then pulled all the blankets off me and said 'mummy get up! Now, mummy, now!'

I am finding that our dd (1 year on Friday!!) is learning to lie in abit. When she wakes up she does often cuddle with us. When there have been times of early waking it does not mean we get up and she has happily stayed in bed - not always still of course but at least we don´t have to start fully functioning until at least 7am

Everybodies right and wrong is a sliding scale, but for me to cc would feel wrong. We give love in every aspect as much as possible so to me its a contrary message - for her and me. I understand that cc is a life line to some parents. I feel dd learns alot about sleeping and relationships by working through a situation together - its another pathway / method. I do like her in her own space though rather than in bed. In 6 months she might be pushing me out of bed though.. hope not!

When we 'chose' to do cc (I put that in inverted commas because it was really a last resort for us and if you accept that cc fails for some you also have to accept that co-sleeping etc. fails for others!) it was out of love as much as anything else. Dd gets lots of love and lots of attention from us in the daytime but at the time her sleep went wrong we were all too tired to cope with doing anything properly. Especially her. And everything we did to help her sleep made her infuriated - we'd pick her up and she'd scream to be put down. We'd put her down and she'd scream to be picked up. Children are so different and cc suited her because she's never been cuddly (even though I long for her to be and cuddle her whenever the opening arises), she likes her own space. She likes my company best when we're sitting side by side reading or playing or just talking. I think there's a lot of guilt associated with using cc and I was very against it right up until we eventually did it. Now I know what people go through with sleep problems and I honestly don't think any single method is 'wrong' so long as everyone is happy. I certainly don't think my dd feels 'unloved' because we did cc. She now goes to bed singing to me until I leave the room, snuggles down and is out until morning.

I do totally agree that what works for some really doesn't work for others, the only thing I really don't like is when some of the 'professionals' who like cc say that if you do it properly then it always works in the end. This doesn't take individuality into account and makes you feel like you've failed or are being over-sensitive if you stop cc.

fran1 - totally agree - a mattress on the floor made a huge difference to dd, she's not scared of it. And dd does move around a fair bit before settling down, but that's what she's like atm - has to be moving ALL the time.