Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Sleep

Join our Sleep forum for tips on creating a sleep routine for your baby or toddler. Need more advice on your childs development? Sign up to our Ages and Stages newsletter here.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Sleep probelms - i can't go on like this any longer.........

28 replies

saintshar · 09/08/2004 15:15

My Ds, who is two and a half, is getting worse and worse sleeping the older he gets.
He has had bad spells before, but i have always been able to sort it by doing C/C.
The problem we have now is that he can climb over his gate that he has on his bedroom door. Last Week he climbed over the other gate that we have at the top of the stairs as well, and fell down stairs, the first thing we knew was when we found him screeming at the bottom of the stairs. Thankfully he wasn't hurt.
My MIL said when my DH was little, he did the same thing, so she put a chain on his door - the type you have on front doors so that you don't have to fully open them.
After much debate, we decided to try it as we are scared that he will seriously hurt himself next time he falls downstairs.
But last night he got so angry during C/C that he snapped the chain off! (he is very big and strong for a two Year old!)
I am really at a loss as to what to do next. No one is getting any sleep. We have tried everything we can to try to get him to sleep better - going to bed later, earlier, stopping afternoon naps etc.
Has anyone got ANY ideas of something to try, i will try anything. I have been really upset about it all today, i just can't go on like this........

OP posts:

mummysurfer · 09/08/2004 15:21

fenergen---
you will have to see your gp for it. but it really sounds like you need something a) to give you some sleep so you are more able to cope and b) give him some sleep in order to break the habit.
if you use fenergen i would still go OTT with praise for him the following morning for staying in his room/bed and sleeping.

hth

shrub · 09/08/2004 15:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

shrub · 09/08/2004 15:38

just thought of something else that may help, whenever we take our ds1 swimming mid afternoon he sleeps really well. it gives them loads of exercise and relaxes them at the same time. maybe from 3 onwards (presuming he goes to bed 6.30) you could go for a swim or if at home try paddling pool with lots of water toys or a sandpit? then tea, bath, story, bed?

saintshar · 09/08/2004 15:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

saintshar · 09/08/2004 15:45

We have tried that also shrub - lots of excercise, swimming during the day to tire him out. It does seem to work to a degree, but just delays it, i.e he just starts waking at say 1am instead of 11pm.
But please keep the ideas coming, i am desperate..

OP posts:

elliott · 09/08/2004 15:47

shrub, how old was ds1 when you took him to the cranial osteopath? you may have given me an idea there. ds1 is 2y 8m and is similarly becoming more of a problem regarding his sleeping - easily becomes overwound and hyper and seems to be finding it harder to get to sleep at night. We do all the right things re good bedtime routine and lots of exercise. We've thought about dropping his nap but he gets so hysterical by bedtime if he misses it that I'm not sure it wouldn't make things worse. I daren't even think about what's going to happen when he's out of a cot....

Only suggestion I have is to try a star chart? And try keeping very calm when you are doing the cc/putting him back to bed - no talking etc (easier said than done I know as I often get very frustrated when ds1 is hyper at bedtime)

Blu · 09/08/2004 15:49

Is he thirsty at night in this weather? Could you leave him a beaker of water? or hot? Or it's too dark for him and he wants company?

DS has never responded positively to battles, CC etc, or being shut in anywhere - it simply makes him more determined. He actually improved once we moved him from a cot to a bed as he didn't feel he had anything to fight against. I don't think he would go to sleep at all if he thought he was locked in his room, he'd just be constantly aware of the need to escape! Could your DS be the same? Just put him calmly back to bed when he wakes until he simply wakes and stays put if he is happy, not thirsty etc?

Sorry, don't know what else to suggest!

Blu · 09/08/2004 15:49

And I think you can buy Phenergan over the counter....

elliott · 09/08/2004 15:51

saintshar, I've read about the 'silent return to bed' technique in sleep books - you explain BEFORE bedtime what you are going to do if he gets out of bed in the night, but when you are actually putting him back to bed you don't say anything at all. I believe it can take a LOT of patience and taking back to bed for it to break the habit. (never tried it myself but I think I will probably have to when we put ds1 in a bed).

honeybunny · 09/08/2004 15:53

saintshar- we have a milder prob with ds2. He's 2.4yrs and shares a room with his older brother. He settles well but can wake up to 5x a night screaming his head off. Cant do the cc cos of ds1 in the room(he gets upset by the crying) and besides he just gets out of bed and comes to find me.
My advise is just try to be patient and not give in. I repeatedly take ds2 back to bed, tell him v firmly that it is night time and to go back to sleep. I tell him that he's woken up daddy and ds1 and me and that we will be grumpy and tired with no sleep. Eventually he settles. dh and I take it in turns to go up to him so there isnt any favoratism and we are consistent on what we do. We tend to get a bad week (every night) and then a good week (maybe 1 or 2x a week).
I have lost my rag with him on occasions but it just made the situation worse, more eps of waking etc. So this calm, quiet but v firm approach seems to be the best so far. Easier said than done I know.
He's not had a nap during the day since about 23mo unless he's ill, it made settling at 7.30pm much much worse. We do have some quiettime during the day to prevent melt down. Stories or a bit of tv etc.

mummysurfer · 09/08/2004 15:55

i think fenergen is an anti-hystermine (sp?)
but tell him why you want it and explain that you are after a short term fix, something to break the habit.
if you are worried that it is too much for him try Medinol, available over the counter but does work. it is a painkiller. our local chemist gives it when the gp prescribes paracetemol.

elliott · 09/08/2004 15:59

honeybunny that's interesting, sounds just like my ds1. He has phases of waking up screaming once or twice a night, then phases of no wakings at all. He will usually settle pretty quickly if we go to him and tell him calmly to go to sleep but I find it very frustrating that we can't eliminate the problem - I don't cope well with interupted sleep.
What do you think causes the wakings? I haven't got a clue, can't relate it to anything in his daytime routine, can't find any answers in any books....

shrub · 09/08/2004 16:10

he was about 2 and a half the first time we took him - i thought it was for babies but we had such a brilliant response from the treatment that we still take him when he needs it which was just after term ended at his nursery shcool (now 4)and he was taking ages to wind down at night time. another thought it to try and reinforce sleep psychologically ie: by putting lavender drops on his pillow and calling them 'sleepy drops' or something similar. get him involved by buying a play bed and asking him to put all his bears to bed, have a night light or one of those patterned/musical ones or a small music box you could put under his pillow that he is only allowed to use at nightime. so if he wakes up he could have his special music to help him sleep. talk to him about it, maybe make up a little rhyme to teach him to teach himself to go back to sleep. try letterbox they have 'magic nursery lantern' or you could try 'sleepy time bunny alarm clock' which you can set the rabbit to open his eyes when its time to wake up. if he gets up you walk over to the clock and show him its not time to wake up yet. a company called holz do lovely safe wooden music toys that are activated when you pull a string so they can learn to do it themselves. best of luck
x

elliott · 09/08/2004 16:19

thanks for the ideas shrub. I especially like the idea of a rhyme for going to sleep - he's started telling me 'I'm just lying here waiting for my sleep to come' - so maybe I can build on that....He does get easily over-stimulated and I find when he gets hyper I get so wound up its hard for me to calm him down! (maybe I should get some lavender sleepy drops myself!)

Original poster

saintshar · 09/08/2004 16:20

oh shrub, they are some FANTASTIC ideas, really they are. I knew MNers would come up with some great sugestions.
He had been ok, but wasn't very well, which i think got him into the routine of waking. Then he realised he could climb over his gate.
Blu, i think you might be right about the locking him in his room (God that sounds soooo cruel!) It is funny that since we put the chain on his door, he seems to have got worse (didn't think that would be possible.
I am definately going to try some of these ideas. myself and essbee have given ourselves 1 Week to try to sort things out. We both have tough Weeks next Week,
Please keep the ideas coming, thanksxx

OP posts:

shrub · 09/08/2004 16:38

don't feel that you are being cruel - you are trying to keep him safe and sleep deprivation is used by the military and police as a form of TORTURE!!

gscrym · 09/08/2004 16:51

How about one of those split doors (kinda like a stable door. It would probably be higher than a baby gate. I know it's a bit expensive but it's an idea. My mum had a foster carer who had to get a 6 foot garden gate to keep her charges in. The little girl in question was about 2 and far to strong and clever for her own good.

shrub · 09/08/2004 18:41

just thought of another - try a sleepy story tape, you could buy basic elc/fisher price one so he could do it himself or radio 3 on through the night.....

joanneg · 09/08/2004 18:46

another idea could you get a stable door style door for his room and lock the bottom half or something and half the top half open?

strangerthanfiction · 09/08/2004 20:36

Sorry if I sound really stupid suggesting this, but what's the problem with having a normal door that the handle is way too high for him to reach?

honeybunny · 09/08/2004 22:22

elliot- your guess is as good as mine. We thought ds2 was having nightmares or night fears. I've certainly had to check under the bed and in the cupboard for him in the past to reassure there arent any scary things in them. We have magic star stickers which "help keep bad thoughts away"- we stick these to the bed and doors and cupboards etc. Special kisses in hands to throw at bad things to make them go away. ds1 insists on 10 every night and if he's woken by ds2 then has to have another 10 before he sleeps again!! SIL used to have a magic spray....a room fragrance I think.... which was to help all bad things go away, and the special kisses were her idea too.

All of the above were working well but we keep getting regressions. The way he screams out it sounds like night fears but often a kiss and quick cuddle and he's struggling to get back into bed. Now I'm not sure. He says he's having bad dreams if asked but not sure if I'm putting the idea into his head as he doesnt volunteer the info, and says he doesnt know why he's crying.

I keep putting it down to it being yet another phase!! Just wish he's hurry up and get over it.

Original poster

saintshar · 09/08/2004 22:44

Tonight i have put a night light on next to his bed, put a beaker with water in, and put an extra dummy on his bed side table.
Then we sat him down and told him that tonight he shouldn't wake up as he is making everyone tired during the day. When i took him up to bed, i explained that he has a drink and a spare dummy if he neads one, so he doesn't need to get out of bed. And if he doesn't wake, he will get a special star. When he gets 10 stars he will get a suprise.
My Mum said to talk to him more - explain things. You tend to forget they understand much more than you realise, even though they are only little.
Will let you know how i get on.

OP posts:

essbee · 10/08/2004 10:17

Message withdrawn

Original poster

saintshar · 10/08/2004 11:54

Essbee buddy!!

It didn't work. I really look like s#!t this morning, feel like it too. I look like i have two black eyes.

I am going to stick at it a bit longer, see if it makes a difference. I know if i got into his bed he would go back to sleep, but i really don't want to start doing that.

He was quite upset this morning because i told him he won't be getting a star. I feel like such a bad Mum, i just can't be bothered with him during the day because i am so tired.

If i could just get him to break the cycle of waking so early, then i know he would sleeping better. But i just don't know how to do that.

I am just going to have to start going to bed at 9pm to get at least some sleep. But then i will have no life apart from work and sleep......

OP posts:

Blu · 10/08/2004 11:59

Saintshar: I think going to bed at 9pm is a very good idea, for the time being. You WILL have a life and independence because it will work in the longer term!
If this is the tack you are taking, get your sleep when you can, and firmly just put him back to bed each time he gets up. Can you alternate nights with your DH?
You did well to tell him no star. Keep re-inforcing it, and the first time it works, make a big fuss.
if you are lucky this will work within 4 nights. that's only 3 to go. Hang on in there.-

Flip

1 2