sleep deprivation & recovery

[Beanie]

Any tips on how to make a five year old go to sleep and to stay asleep at least for more than two hours in a row? A regular occurance of continual insomnia is becoming quite a scary experiece. I dread going to sleep as I can imagine her awakening withing two hours for a reassuring 'go back to sleep, I'm still here' plea. This is what I went through when she was a baby and she is still a horrendous sleeper. Help somebody with any experience of big baby blues!

Beanie, I hesitate to suggest this because it's not the right answer for everyone, but have you tried/are you willing to try having her sleep with you? If it worked you would both get a better night's sleep, provided all the family were happy with this solution?
Some health visitors can also refer you to sleep clinics, which could help you rule out a physical explanation for your daughter's frequent waking.
Good luck. Our son is younger than your daughter but has always been a light/nervous sleeper, and boy do I know the havoc it can cause in your life. We have ended up with him in our bed every night which is wonderful much of the time and a real pain for us sometimes. As we both work full-time outside the home we had to do something to get 6 hours a night minimum and this worked for us.

Or you could move her cot into your room?

Beanie - if its any consolation, you're not the only one with an older child who still doesn't sleep. My youngest is now 3.5 & she still regularly wakes up at night, but she is getting better. I know what it's like to have spent the previous 4 years getting up every 2 hours, to the extent now that if she doesn't wake up I do. I'm not sure if I can offer any suggestions, but you could try any/all of the following
changing the room around so that she sees something different when she wakes up
turning a night light on/off
tuck all covers in, & if necessary put elastic on the duvet that feeds under the bed, this stops the quilt falling off & them getting cold (I know, sound extreme but if you're desperate)
leave a book and a drink by the bed & suggest that if she wakes up she looks at the pictures & has a drink, then goes back to sleep - WITHOUT waking mummy
threats
I have to say that it was the last one that worked for me. At 3.5 my daughter is old enough to understand that if I am continually woken up, them I will be too tired to go to the park/party/playgroup etc. Sounds hard but we are now both enjoying ourselves much more.
Just in case you are worried it's something you have done, my eldest sleeps from 7.30 til 7.30 every night.
I did also move both my kids into the same room. I don't know if you have more than one (probably not if that one has never slept) but this may be worth a try.
Good luck

Beanie, you have all my sympathy. We really struggled with our little boy and he is only 18 months old. I don't know how you have coped for so long. Have a quick look at the Wits End conversation at the bottom of this board to see comments on sleep training. I don't know how it would work for a 5 year old but may be worth a try. Also, it may be worth chatting to your health visitor or GP and see if you could chat to someone in a sleep clinic for kids.

Thank you very much Bugsy, Debsb, SML and Marina for your tips and sympathy! Last night was the first time I persuaded her to sleep in the room without her revolving fish lamp which lets out a huge amount of light, so I had to rethink my strategies. She is now allowed a plug night light which has a warm orange glow (some consolaion!) and I leave the door open so she can see the fish lamp in the corridor but she still awoke twice before midnight and again at 1.30 a.m and again at 6 a.m but the 'going back to bed' was less of a struggle. The reason I haven't let her into my bed is because I want to perservere with the idea of making her actually enjoy her room and surroundings as when the time comes for 'big school' etc she will need all her energy, not to mention the sleep I need to cope with work the next day. I didn't mention it before but I have been a single parent since she was three ('Ah, it all makes sense now', I hear you cry.) I have found it more difficult on my own ( no-one to take turns with etc) but I am determined to carry on with showing her how to be more independant and hopefully within time she will depend a little less on nighttime reassurance. Thanks again!

Hooraaaay! My five year old daughter daughter has slepth through the whole night, for two nights in a row after weeks of irregular sleeping. I took the advice of a health advisor who suggested a sleep chart which involves rewarding her with a gold star everytime she sleeps through the night and stays in her bed, and then give her a treat after three nights of good sleep. She was pretty much the same for the first couple of weeks I tried this and I have despaired, thinking it was never going to work but hey presto she's finally understanding the concept of day and night and has awoken (quite early,but I can't complain!) to ask me if she gets a gold star. I hope this keeps up and I'm sure once she's rewarded with treats everytime she sleeps three times in a row she'll keep it up. I can recommend this method to anyone who might be having troubles putting their big babies to sleep.

Hooraaaay! My five year old daughter has slept through the whole night, for two nights in a row after weeks of irregular sleeping. I took the advice of a health visitor who suggested a sleep chart which involves rewarding her with a gold star everytime she sleeps through the night and stays in her bed, and then give her a treat after three nights of good sleep. She was pretty much the same for the first couple of weeks I tried this and I have despaired, thinking it was never going to work but hey presto she's finally understanding the concept of day and night and has awoken (quite early,but I can't complain!) to ask me if she gets a gold star. I hope this keeps up and I'm sure that once she's rewarded with treats everytime she sleeps three times in a row she'll be dreaming of what she might be getting as her next treat as opposed to the night terrors she's had in the past. I can recommend this method to anyone who might be having troubles putting their big babies to sleep.

Well done Beanie! I'm sure that other than the odd hiccup you will have cracked it now. Here's to many more more wonderful night's sleep.

I have a 9 month old baby boy who sleeps relatively well but wakes 2-3 times during the night. These broken nights sleep are causing me alot of problems like dizziness, headaches and loss of confidence in myself. Has anyone else experienced such physical and emotional problems relating to disturbed nights.

Pigwig

I think you will find by reading all these messages that you are not alone... and that however painful this may sound... you might need to follow a control crying method (they are very efficient and usually work after 1 or maybe 2 nights)... but you have to be strong.
Gina Ford is a good author (she is in the Q&As on this website) and the Taming your toddler book is also highly recommended (but I haven't read it).
Your child will be confident and happier if he sleeps well... and so will you !

Pigwig

I can wholly sympathise. My 2 year old son didn't have a night of unbroken sleep until he was 14 months old. I would go to him each time he woke and was giving him a bottle and stroking him to sleep. In the end I resorted to letting him cry himself back to sleep and it worked! I think that nightwaking had just become a habit and I was rewarding him each time I went in to him. I even got into the habit of giving him breakfast at 3am! Parenting is a hard enough job. Doing it without decent periods of sleep is torture. Good luck.

My son who is nearly 5 now, recently started to wake up in the night, for a variety of reasons. He was scared, or his covers had become untucked, or he wanted to sleep in my bed with me. At first I was very sympathetic towards him. But as you lose sleep night after night, my patience began to wear thin! I agree that a reward system may help in some cases. My son wanted his cousin to come and stay overnight. I agreed, as long as he could sleep through the night for seven nights, without waking me up. He managed this, not consecutive nights. But all the same, he eventually did it, and his cousin coming to stay for the night was the reward. He still frequently calls out in the night, or sounds like he is crying. But when I go in to him and talk to him. He seems as though he is still asleep, and can't answer me. I cover him up, and tuck him in as tight as I can, then I don't usually hear any more from him that night. I really sympathize with anyone whose child doesn't sleep through the night. Unless you have been through it yourself. I don't really think that anyone else really understands what you are going through.

Thank you so much Sparrow and Pupuce just for responding to me. I am new to this website and was a bit apprehensive about getting in touch. Just to know there are other people who know exactly how I feel is a great relief. I will try your tip Pupuce and let you know how I get on as soon as possible

Way to go Bron !
Keep going .... as you say you are nearly there. I have yet to hear a story of control crying which didn't work (if done thoroughly) but it is hard... however the reward is really worth it for everyone INCLUDING your child who will be more content if he sleeps well. He just isn't use to it.

Hi everyone, I'm back again with more sleep deprivation woes. Can anyone tell me how lack of sleep actually makes them feel.I find that when I am extremely tired I experience lightheadness or mild dizzy spells as well as feeling physically sick. I've been to GP and others and its not an ear/balance problem. I'm convinced it's exhaustion that's doing it. Any takers?

Pigwig, makes me feel sick, tearful, grumpy, achey and shivery.

Oh yes to that, and soooooooo physically weak (no fun if you're spending your day as a baby carrier).

Also, even with mild degree of sleep deprivation (not able to get more than 4 hours at a stretch although 6-7 hours sleep total)I have noticed that my ability to recall words and do simple mental arithmetic is totally blown away.

pigwig - could you and your partner try taking it in turns for a while just to help you catch up on some sleep. My ds wakes up most days by 5.30am so me and partner have a day on and day off to both cope. And actually its not that bad coz you end up with an almost decent sleep every other night. But you need a sympathetic partner to do it!!

pigwig - could you and your partner try taking it in turns for a while just to help you catch up on some sleep. My ds wakes up most days by 5.30am so me and partner have a day on and day off to both cope. And actually its not that bad coz you end up with an almost decent sleep every other night. But you need a sympathetic partner to do it!!

Pigwig - I had the same 'symptoms' as you. My best description was that it was like having morning sickness all the time (with no baby to look forward to).
Do watch your iron levels, aneamia can make me feel similar, as can snacking on sugary food instead of proper stuff, but who has time for nutrition when they've had a couple of hours sleep and a baby to look after?!
Hope you get more sleep soon.

Agree totally with you Pigwig about symptoms. Can you take naps? I have an 18 month old erratic sleeper and am expecting second at beginning of july so sleep pretty poor but i find that if I take naps at the weekend when no 1 is sleeping i can just about cope. even just lying down for prolonged periods with a book helps a bit . Also diet does seem to have an effect - try avoiding quick energy foods (sugary stuff) which leave you feeling worse when the rush goes and eat lots of protein and compex carbohydrates - doesn't have to be too complicated - tuna sandwich, beans on toast and drink as much water as you can...

I have resorted to a sleep programme for my 10+mth old DS. He used to sleep through the night and then had a few illnesses one after the other resulting in him waking two to several times in the night. I was also beginning to feel emotional, headaches and angry when other mums bragged that there child slept 12-13hrs or more. I thought to myself I must do something about it quick as I want start and plan for another baby and desperately need some sleep. The book I am using is 'The Good SlEEP GUIDE for you and your baby' by Angela Henderson. We have been doing it for two nights and last night he slept through from 8.15 to 7.15. The problem with my DS is that he doesn't wake crying he just moans to himself sometimes up to an hour at a time, so I found it confusing on whether to go into him or not. Now I am following the programme I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that it works. I am also keeping a sleep diary so I can look back on and see where we were going wrong.

I think my daughter has a radar as she instinctively wakes up in the night when Im on an early shift.I have to get up at 5.30 am to be at work at 7am therfore im stressed because Im tired on wound up because I know I have A lot to do the following day But even when shes asleep she still knows Its allvery strange or Is It just coincedental.

Trudles, my kids have a radar too. I go out every Monday and all evening, with Daddy babysitting, they're fine. Not a peep. But the moment I get through the door, before it's even shut, one of them stirs!!

Pigwig, sleep deprivation! I havn't had a normal nights sleep in the last 4 months. My average rest time is 2-3 hrs all due to my now 2 yr old. How does it feel? Well, for me it goes in waves, lerching from feeling O.K. to being so wiped out I nod off whilst watching the Tweenies with my girls and get prodded by my 4 yr old, being so shaky I'm afraid to drive as I know I can't concentrate, being unable to remember words, snapping at the kids and being dead touchy about anything dh says, feeling like I can't be bothered to eat, being so physicaly tired when I wake from what sleep i do get that I can hardly move and so it goes on. However, this last week we,ve had 3 reasonable (for us) nights, so I'm hoping there's light at the end of the tunnel, but no chickens are being counted yet!
P.S. to complete my moan, dh recently gave up smoking and has been a nightmare at times and I broke my toe!!