bedtime routine

[Cl]

Seems odd posting again after so long - on the same discussion but with a different problem. I actually came on this thread to ask what I could do to 'train' my nocturnal baby - four months, happy and smiley and quite sleepy in the day - awake and keen to feed all night, but started reading and realised I had quite a common problem. It's interesting though looking back on my last posting here, my dd did eventually go back to sleeping in her cot - just shows that everything's a phase? Think I'll just take comfort from that - though I think I probably did a bit of sleep training - and I can tell you it's harder when they can actually ask for you by name! (and make themselves sick). I feel I should also defend the old sleep training a bit as I'm something of a veteran. It may sound awful but when you've had a bad sleeper you will try anything. We first did it after reading Ferber's book (and having been woken every two/three hours for a feed for ever) when she was about 6 months old. She wasn't left to cry for hours - we went in at reguar intervals to reassure and say goodnight. The first night it took 45 mins, and I admit that most of the time I was sitting outside her room with a watch, crying myself. The second night it took 30 mins and the third night she went down quite happily. I continued to do night feeds for quite some time, but reduced the feed time (as Ferber suggests) by a couple of minutes a night. I've never particularly enjoyed the process of sleep training and we have had to repeat it over the years, but I can say that it works and it made me a better mother, much less snappy and cross and it made my daughter happier in herself because she wasn't exhausted. She certainly doesn't seem damaged in any way by it and is outgoing, bright and very loving. Sleep deprivation as I'm finding out with 4 month old ds (again)is a form of torture - and quite different to a bit of general parental tiredness, which I admit is to be expected. So any advice on what to do with my owl-child would be most welcome. I try to space his daytime feeds and he'll happily go three or four hours in the daytime - doesn't even seem that interested in feeding, but seems to wake up around midnight. Not advocating sleep training him (yet) but any suggestions as to other routine changes I can try appreciated.
PS Apologies for the rambling - lack of sleep. Sad really cos I thought second time around I'd be so much better at this!

Do you have a black out blind Florenceuk? When we started giving dd a daytime nap it was hard work at first, we would try to keep her awake until her nap time, then before we put her in her room we would draw the blind and make it as dark as possible. About 1/2 hour before nap time we would also try to get her to wind down. She has a favourite teddy that she is only allowed when she is going to sleep, the mere sight of this teddy will cause her to snuffle. Try to have a routine that your baby can follow before naptime, so that he knows his nap is not far away, such as tidying his toys away, reading him a story and then a cuddle and rock for five minutes before taking him to his darkened room.
Give it time, one day he will understand and all will fall into place, I promise!

It has been really interesting seeing this discussion unfold. Life on a sleep-lite diet is pretty weird and fuzzy and such bliss when you get that dose of free rest sleep.

I found it insightful to see that people, with due care and consideration, were putting their babies to sleep sometimes on the tummy. I wish I had the guts to do this first time round. Ds would be phazing out nicely but would jolt awake as soon as he was put down on his back, despite all the bed warming etc.

I go to sleep on my tummy and have tried to train myself out of it is not supposed to be good for your neck. Also I did worry what I would do if I ever got pregnant (use a lot of pillows I found out, and enjoy your favourite sleep position).

Great relief when he learnt to roll. He's lying there now with his little bum in the air.

Wells, I know everyone's said it already, but I really feel for you. I sometimes think it would be better to get your maternity leave for the second six months of your baby's life rather than the first! Not much advice I'm afraid, only sympathy. Me and my friend now refer to "The Penelope Leach baby" to mean this mythical creature you expect while pregnant. It's so disappointing, because you get more and more excited as the due date arrives, then the beginning of your baby's life is the worst for its parents. Then you feel awful for not being happy at getting what you've always wanted, a healthy baby. I just don't recognise this picture of the mother being at home with a new baby finding it difficult to lose weight because they're always eating - I barely had time to make myself a sandwich! I also stopped wearing my boots for months, because I could never bend down to tie the laces as I was always carrying a baby. Even now I can't remember what I did in those first few months that was so time-consuming, but I know that I literally didn't have a moment to myself.

My only piece of advice is on sleep training. It was a revelation to be told by my HV (at three weeks) that there was nothing wrong with a baby crying itself to sleep. So we started on a bedtime routine, and leaving dd to cry at bedtime. Even at such a young age, it worked after only a few nights. (I could never bring myself to do it during the day, but they have to go to bed at some time.) Also, don't worry about the dummies - if it soothes them and makes them happier, what's the problem? I hope it doesn't sound too patronising to say that it does get better all the time, and the first four months are definitely the worst!

Hi Wells1.

Not much to add, but just to say if you are trying GF for your baby, given what you have said about the frequency of his feeds, I would ignore the "age" of the routines and start on the "youngest" - two/four weeks, this still gives you latitude to feed every three hours or so. I would second Alison222's advice about distraction to stretch the time a little if possible, as well as getting as much milk on board as you can. This takes my son longer than GF's 40mins as well. If you're not getting on with GF, you might try Confessions of the Baby Whisperer by Tracy Hogg. She is less prescriptive than GF, which is why some people seem to find her more appealing, but is still routine oriented - less specific advice to follow though.

I have found Baby Yoga useful for dealing with windiness, likewise good old gripe water.

I also recommend Life After Birth by Kate Figes for a good "yes! finally someone understands" type read.

Best of luck!

I employed a night time only maternity nurse (10pm-8pm) for 3 weeks after my second baby. I had such an awful time first time around after an emergency c.section that I was determined not to repeat that. I had a maternity nurse who although was an experienced nanny was only just starting as a maternity nurse. She cost £75 per night. I found her through a local nanny agency who also charged an introduction fee.

Sorry that should be "Secrets of the Baby Whisperer"