Advice please on Contented Little Baby routine

[susanAM]

I put my 5 week old breastfed baby daughter on this routine at 3 weeks because it made a lot of sense. She took to it very well.
At first I found it hard to get used to waking her at the end of naps ( she was always still asleep at the end of the suggested times) and at 10.30 pm - it went against the grain for me to do this but as I understood the theory I did it and it worked very well, until about two days ago, since when during her daytime naps despite being well fed, changed, in a dark room, correct number of blankets, swaddled etc. she does not sleep, but cries off and on, sometimes for the whole "nap".She will cry for minute, then be quiet for a minute or so, then cry again and so it goes on.
What do you advise me to do?
She feeds well and stays awake between naps. She adheres to the routine at nights. This morning she woke at 7 o'clock on the dot and I falsely thought we had cracked it!
So far I have stuck firm to the times suggested, and have not gone in for a peek or to pick her up.

That means for the last two days she has not really slept at all during the noon- 2pm period. Yesterday morning she did not sleep at her morning nap either.
Last night was the worst. Having barely slept all day I put her in bed at 7 pm and she cried on and off till 9pm till the crying got much worse. I went in to see her, she was lying in a cold and wet pool of sick.You can imagine how terrible I felt. I cuddled and fed her for half an hour( she fell asleep at the breast) and she slept till 2.30, fed for 20 mins and has now gone back to sleep.
I am completely okay about being firm in the early days if it is for the greater good for the baby but we all have our limits and I really don't think it is okay to let a baby cry as much as I have done over the past few days.
Please advise and let me know if this is a phase which is to be expected.

I disagree with you on that SueDonim... but you know that
Both my kids and both my nephews are all GF and all breastfed between 8 and... months (some still bfeeding). I could give you loads of examples as I am sure you know some who would disagree.
I PERSONNALLY have yet to meet someone who really read GF, did her routine and failed to maintain BF... because of her routines (presumably you mean that if you follow GF you will not have enough milk?).

LOL, Pupuce! But I could find as many examples from my local BFC of mums whose BF 'careers' have been foreshortened by GF. GF also assumes you can afford to buy a pump and the other paraphenalia required.

I don't think anybody else has mentioned this already but - Jasper, what were Cow & Gate doing sponsoring things at your health centre? I thought there were laws in the UK to prevent formula manufacturers advertising, as it is seen to undermine bfeeding? I would have thought that was the kind of thing your health visitor should be running, especially if, as it sounds, she was present throughout. (I'm quite prepared for anyone to prove me wrong on this one BTW).

Rosy I confess that was one of the reasons I went along, ie to see if there was any kind of promotion of their products, but there wasn't at all. We were given a jar of organic babyfood, but even that was very low key, he just left pile to one side and said we could take some if we wanted to.
Presumeably what's in it for them is just to advertise their name in association with babycare in general. As there was no hint at all of advertising formula ( the word was not mentioned) over breastmilk I see no cause for concern.
But like you my first reaction was why are cow and gate doing this and not the HV, but in the end it didn't really matter.
Have to say though, the chap's public speaking/delivery skills were totally pants!

I had exactly the same thoughts as you Rosy but apparently whilst the C&G man was breaking the WHO code, he wasn't breaking the Britsh law.

And of course he was advertising even if he never mentioned formula. His very presence was an advert. No doubt the jars of baby food said they were suitable from 4mths - again against WHO recommendations. And the strategy worked - he got a roomful of parents who will now remember the name C&G!

SueDonim is right - they can reach mothers direct legally in this country, in just the way jasper describes. The rep who gave the talk is a salesman - he wants to sell more stuff. Why on earth would a food manufacturer know about infant sleep? Why on earth isn't the HV doing this talk herself?

Some formula manufacturers do baby massage classes, and the dolls used as models have branded tee-shirts on.

These classes are a way to reach mothers with their brand name. It's selling. I object to publicly-funded places like health centres being used as a platform for salespeople.

If it didn't increase sales of their stuff you can be sure they wouldn't do it. The salesman probably cost his company £100 in wages/petrol/materials/training, and the assumption would be that he would more than reap the money back in increased sales of formula milk and pre-packaged baby gloop.

'Course, I could be wrong. Maybe they do it for love....huh?

I was in no doubt at all the reason why he was doing it but can't see the slightest harm.
It was a pleasant way to spend a morning and I got to meet other mums who live locally.
I just can't get worked up about this kind of thing.
Just checked the jar - organic fruit puree - says suitable from 7 months.

So are you going to buy his jars now ??? Maybe you are more aware but not everyone is... so I think it is unprofessional of a HV to agree to this sort of free advertising to be honest

I am so perverse I will probably make a point of NOT buying his jars...!
In the same way I avoid products if the advert for them is irritating.
Remember the one when the little boy bellows "FEED ME! "at his mother ....And the mother smiles lovingly and continues in the role of downtrodden slave.....grrr

This thread seems to have evolved from the original topic but I can't resist from adding my bit. Our HV run post-natal group had a visit from a formula rep, sorry can't remember which company; When I arrived at the group DD was getting fairly vocal as she needed feeding, and no word of a lie, the HV said 'Oh she sounds hungry, have you brought any food ?' When I replied yes, I was BF she tried to put me in the HV's office to avoid offending the speaker. It was one of the few times I felt truely uncomfortable with feeding in public.

Twink that is shocking. Did she simply make mistake and confuse you with another mum who was not breast feeding?
To give him his due, mr cow and gate was very pro bf - kept looking at me in an encouraging manner whenever feeding was mentioned ( I was feeding my baby throughout - you would all have been proud of me!)
As the talk was about sleep he was keen to dispell the myth( is it a myth? I always thought it was true) that formula fed babies would sleep better.
I have been discussing the idea of companies sponsoring events like this with my midwife and she has qualms about them on the grounds that it is almost subliminal advertising. I see what she means. In a way it would be more honest of companies to just say " cow and gate are giving out free samples at such and such a place on Tuesday" Than to set up these kind of health talks and try to set up and association in your mind with babycare in general.
Also, what about the "Bounty" bags they give out at hospitals? I know it is always nice to get samples of stuff but to give out, say, Johnstons baby bath seems almost to say the hospital is endorsing it, or even that in some way it is necessary to cover your baby in bubbles at bathtime.
This is a personal bugbear of mine - dh is always buying baby bubble bath abd I think it is an unnecessary waste of money and probably not that good for their skin either. Anyone know if I am right or am I just being an old fogey?

Just had another thought. I read in a breastfeeding book that some HVs sort of subconsciously sabbotage mothers' efforts to breastfeed because they were either not successful themselves, or could not have children,or are generally jealous in some way.

I don't know if there is any truth at all in this but it is an interestig theory.
Anyone have any thoughts ?

You bet Bouncy bags are advertising !!!!
I agree with you bubble bath is a waste of time and is a marketing ploy ! Espcecially for newborns...
As for the sabotage theory... well my mum (who wasn't successful at bf both her kids) has never been very supportive of bf (could NOTsee what the point was of continuing after 3 months) and openly criticises my cousin who bf her baby well over 1 yo. She has learned to be more supportive as bot my SIL and I are successfully bf for many many months !

Where is SusanAM??? Is your daughther better now ?

Twink, I can't tell you how shocked I was when I read what happened to you. I honestly think the HV ought to be reported for what she did.
Not so sure about the sabotage theory although my mum, an unsuccessful b/f like Pupuce's, was extremely discouraging when ds was born and I had a lot of problems. I also kept the fact that he had one feed a day until he was 2.5 from her, because I knew her reaction would be disgust.

Regarding HPs like midwives and HVs "sabotaging" breastfeeding, I guess it is hard not to bring your own personal experiences and disappointments to the workplace. One midwife I saw after ds was born told me with what seemed like some relish, that I should snap out of grizzling over giving ds supplementary bottles. When I said that my main concern was trying to reduce his chances of inheriting his dad's asthma, she said it was "too late" as by giving just one supplementary bottle I had undone all the good b/f work. That I found deeply unhelpful and I believe she was also wrong. But, in other respects, she was a good and caring midwife - she was the unlucky one who had just taken out my stitches when my wound ruptured and she was so kind and supportive during the delay before I was sent back to theatre.
I had good team care from small group of midwives and they all had their personality quirks and minor prejudices - just like their clients, I bet.

Bubble bath and baby toiletries are a waste of money, and there was an article in one of the midwifery journals that explained new babies' skin is really best left alone (apart from water), until the baby is old enough to become really dirty. The Bounty bag is advertising, that's for sure! However, there is a big difference between getting you to use baby shampoo (or whatever) and promoting formula milk/baby foods through a connection with baby care issues like sleep. The salespeople come to the cinic to meet bottle feeding and breastfeeding mothers. They love breastfeeding mothers - why? Because mothers who breastfeed almost all use formula, and they actually formula feed for longer than mothers who start off formula feeding...that is, they don't switch to doorstep milk as soon. So, if the salesman gets a link in a breastfeeding mother's mind between his brand and care for babies, when she switches to formula (as most do) she may be more likely to use his brand, and for many months/years.

Wow, Tiktok, that is fascinating. It's scary to discover just how much we are being manipulated.

Re 'sabotage' - my friend is a trainee MW. She was shocked to overhear the Sister on her unit telling a mum who'd decided to swap to formula feeding 'Oh, good, that makes it easier for us.'

Further to SueDonim's comment. When I was in hospital having DS I was the only b/f mum on the ward of four, most of the midwives were great and told me just to buzz everytime I had a problem which was almost every feed. There was one midwife however who was older and I overheard her say that she only does the night-shift now as it is easier. She seemed so impatient with me if I asked for help and one night I overheard her speaking to one of the bottlefeeding mums saying "all this breast is best nonsense, we don't have the time to spend with breastfeeding mothers". She said this in full view of me, very aware that I could hear her.

Don't get me started on baby toiletries. Have you ever used Johnsons baby shampoo on your own hair? Completely strips it and leaves it like straw, you might as well use washing up liquid. Baby bubble bath is another complete waste of money, if we use bubble bath (dd loves bubbles) she gets ph 5.5 (on special offer at Tescos) with a bit of lavender oil in. Does anyone use baby oil? Or even baby lotion come to that?

And another thing ...the salesperson has no interest in the bottle feeding mothers at the clinic (apart from to try to flog them his brand of jars of baby gloop). The bottle feeding mothers have chosen their brand already, and if they make changes will probably move on to Stage 2 of whatever brand they are using now. But the breastfeeding mothers.....ha! They are well worth knobbling, as they are likely to use formula at some point and probably haven't a clue about brands. They may well go with a brand they have heard of , though, and, like the formula feeding mothers, they'll stick with that brand afterwards.How can they get them to 'hear of' a brand? By meeting them in the clinic as the 'X rep' and rabbiting on about massage or sleep, or weaning. Pah!

They're not 'reps' - they're salespeople. Pah again!

I like your Pahs very much, tiktok. I'm feeling in an extremely pahing mood today and to hear the (legitimate) pahs of another warms the cockles of my cold cynical heart a bit.

Baby oil is HORRIBLE... have you ever used it on you ?? It does not absorb ! Anyway virgin oil is far better !

How fascinating Tiktok. Wow. We had an SMA woman talking about weaning and now I know why she was so smiley toward us breastfeeders. I couldn't understand why at the time. I was not the only one who found her really patronising but I bought SMA follow on milk!

I've been manipulated!

Yep, Malmomum...she got you all right!!! Don't anyone get me started on follow-on milk, either...worth a bagful of Pahs! in its own right!

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