Ten-month-old sleep fighter - in despair

[Moomma]

I seem to have given birth to a mini superhero, Captain No Sleep. He fights sleep (and has since he was six weeks old). Now we have got to the stage where he weighs 21 pounds and can't be held until he decides to go to sleep, or if you do have to do that, back ache results, and he gets fed up. Naps are appalling (until he goes down - he generally does sleep now once he's off). Bedtime is a bit better, but he wakes roughly every hour between seven and eleven. He wakes at least once during the night, and cries in his sleep at five-ish - screams - until he is rocked, comforted, woken up and cuddled. I am so tired of fighting him. I've tried leaving him to get used to the idea of sleeping as he rolls around his cot frenetically, but this has never worked - just leads to tears. I've tried pick-up, put-down, but that took naps into a new league of awfulness as each settle took over an hour and he was distressed and hot, and so was I.

Don't talk to me about spotting sleep cues. He can be yawning, rubbing eyes or ears and will snap to wakefulness the minute a nap is suggested. I have tried setting nap times so I'm not missing a window of sleepiness. I ALWAYS watch him like a hawk for snooziness. I don't take him out in the middle of the day so he can have lunch at home and then sleep in his cot. His routine is unwaveringly predictable.

Today settling him for his lunchtime nap took over an hour and had me in tears. And my husband and I are so tired.

What do you do?

What time does he go to bed and wake up? I have a 9.5 month DS and he does much better since putting him down for naps at set times instead of watching tired signs. Older babies' tired signs are incredible unreliable.

I'd suggest putting him in a routine, built around his meals. First of all you need to set his awake time - so when he wakes, take him to a sunny window. Put him to bed at 6.30pm as the hourly waking sounds like he's overtired. You might even have to go for a 6pm bedtime just so he can catch up. Put him down for naps at 9am after breakfast and 1pm after lunch - although this only works if he wakes up around 6/7am. You might be better off doing the morning nap at 8.30am and lunch at 12.30pm then gradually push back.

You should also have a short nap routine - begin about 10 mins before you try and settle him (take him to his room, put in sleepbag, generally wind down etc).

It might take a week or so - but if you keep doing it, his body should get used the routine and it becomes easier. My DS now looks at me with tired eyes as his naps approach!

Iggly, you are cheering me with your talk of set times - my 6 m.o's tired signs are getting less and less reliable.

OP, some people recommend taking baby outside asap after they wake to reset the body clock (like Iggly's suggestion). Even if you can't get him to wake at the same time, it works if you get him up at the same time each day.

Thanks for the suggestions - he's in an incredibly strict routine already. He gets up between six and seven, has a feed followed by breakfast, then a short play. Two hours after he wakes up, we're back in the bedroom with him in a sleeping bag for a cuddle and story-reading before his first nap. It takes him at least 20 mins to calm down enough to sleep, sometimes much more. After that nap (usually an hour or so) he has more playtime, milk if he feels like it, a short outing in the pram and back home for lunch at 11.30. I aim to have him in bed at one, after a similar pre-sleep routine, but it can take much longer. Today I took him for his nap earlier, as he'd finished lunch early and was looking tired on the changing mat. From 12.20 to 1.40, we fought over sleep. He eventually snoozed uninterrupted until 3.15, so once he goes, he goes, but I'm knackered from fighting him.

He has dinner at 5.30. Bath at 6.15. Bedtime after a little story/feed ritual is around 7. we keep it all very tranquil and not stimulating once bathtime is over. But he is a very, very alert boy, always has been, and can find interest in the most bland things. I'm just tired of having to wear him down.

Will try earlier bedtime to see if evenings improve! He's been teething since he was 4 months, but only two teeth to show for it. On and on it goes...

Honestly - I think you need to make his naps at the same time every day instead. I noticed at about 7/8 months, trying to nap after 2 hours etc of being awake, didn't work anymore. So my DS will get tired at 8.45am so I have to nap him then - otherwise he'll be a mess, which is what is happening to your DS.

It took me a while to figure that out. I still get it wrong sometimes or forget - eg today I was late putting DS down for a nap by ten mins as he had woken later from his first nap. So I thought he could stretch longer. Big mistake - he then took 50 minutes to settle!!!! Usually he takes 5.

As they get older, their sleep patterns change and their bodies get used to falling asleep at certain times. It's a bit like adults - having a dip in energy early afternoon, getting tired the same time every evening and waking up the same time every morning even without an alarm clock!

Yes Angel it's so much easier nowadays! Until I mess up that is I read a great book called Healthy Sleep, Happy Child which explains all this. It's like my bible!

Also my DS sounds like yours - very alert and nosy. As a newborn he was easily overstimulated and now people always comment on his inquisitiveness.

Hello everyone, my DS has turned into Captain No Sleep also and it is fast turning into an overtired nightmare. I am starting to resent it, and I now hate bedtime and and want to tell him to shut up !.

He is currently in his cot wailing. He is dog tired but won't go to sleep. I don't know what his problem is, I really don't. I have done all the checks, tried to cuddle/rock but he just will not switch off. The minute he goes into his cot he starts flopping about. He has always gone down drowsy but awake with no problem.

If I leave him, he goes batshit crazy and cannot calm himself down. I didn't want to contemplate CC but I really don't know what to do. I don't think it would work as he gets soooooo worked up and this has been going on a couple of weeks now.

I have missed a trick I am sure of it!

Any help welcome - sorry for hijack.

DS 9.5 months. I'm very interested in what you are saying Iggly any more tips????

Hi Ruby! my DS has stopped going asleep by himself for the last few weeks too. Well it happens if, and only if, I put him to bed super early.

Has yours dropped a nap recently? DS dropped to two and has been quite grizzly. So I've had to put him down early sometimes. He's had evenings where he won't sleep so I've got DH to do it. He settles faster for DH as he knows no boob is available.

I've had to be militant about the day naps in terms of timings - as I said I can't do what I did when he was younger and put him down after x number of hours. I have to nap at certain times of the day. It generally works but took few goes to work out when was best.

Although I say he won't self settle - sometimes I've fed him to drowsy and put in the cot then left the room and he's fallen asleep. I think me being there distracts him too much so it's worth giving him a chance. If he gets hysterical, just calm and try again or hand over to DH!

hello hello! its so funny, my DS sounds just like yours - dropped a nap - from 3 to 2 - is tired but not tired ENOUGH for the third nap.

after i wrote that post, DH arrived home and I went and did some exercise as I was so stressed out! And do you know, there were babies in the park! I was like, wtf aren't they doing in bed, but then I thought maybe they were having a nicer time than my DS who was grzzling for Britain, crying - not bawling - with DH . Anyway, I fed him again, and then he was marginally more relaxed do lay him down, and sort of stroked his forehead right near his eyes - it means he has to close them! And after a few minutes he went to sleep .

i am really interested in you saying about the set times - i used to be able to read him like a book, but now he keeps confusing me! He also won't fall asleep so i am wondering whether to put him to bed later as he seems soooooo tired but i put him in his cot and BAM - wide awake and wanting to do acrobatics! This makes me think i am misreading the signs!

Yes when he started to fight the third nap, some days I'd take him out in the afternoon and he'd drift off in the pushchair for 20 mins which helped a bit. Or early bedtime!

I can't read my DS's tired signs as he yawns after a two hour nap so I just put him down at set times now. When he has good naps it works quite well.

I'd love to take DS out in the evenings. However bedtime later than 7pm and it's all over!

My advice FWIW is to drop the am nap and concentrate on the pm nap. My babies have all been poor nappers but with DS2 I have had some success after I stopped trying for two naps a day (at about 8-9 months). Put him for a nap straight after lunch when his tummy is full and perhaps have lunch at 11.30am. Use the same cues you currently use for the am nap. Sometimes DS2 sleeps for 2 hours in the afternoon and still sleeps quite well at night.
Good Luck

Frog how old is your DS? I'm concerned that my DS is too young for just one nap. A couple of times he's not had a morning nap but those were not good days

i am sure he would be exHAUSted! By 8 in the morning (after being up at 5/30 or 6, he is knackered - but he usually hs a good nap then. and he usually has a good 2nd nap, but is knackered by bedtime but won't go to sleep . even an early bedtime doesn't work - it used to!

hello...can I join you? You could have described my DD almost exactly Ruby!

She fights bedtime/naptime like mad..often have to rock for ages but can take forever to even get her to drowsy enough to be rocked..

I think I'm having the same problem with reading the signs..and the added problem of teething which seems to be waking her midnap several times over so she is really not getting enough (also nightwaking 3-4 times at mo so v exhausting all round!)

She seems really knackered in the morning so I can't imagine just one nap is enough altho having said that she has a couple of times totally refused her morning nap and had a huge nap from about 11.30.. but that is not the norm..

Whattime does he wake from the second nap? If DS wakes earlier than 2pm then he struggles and becomes manic with wide eyes and waving arms.

lol at your manic DS! sounds familiar - sometimes he wakes at 1:30, if he has had a long morning nap - im wondering if i should shorten the morning nap too i did this morning but he then totally refused his afternoon nap - had 30 minutes in the pram - maybe he was tired from a too short morning nap, although it was an hour! and what time does your DS go to sleep at night? is he waking up at night?

If your babies are around 9 months, the 8/9 month sleep regression may be having an effect. See here, here and here.

Iggly, I should have known about babies starting to work according to the clock - I have a copy of HSHHC on my shelf. .

IIRC Weissbluth says that the third nap should be dropped by 9 months or bedtime ends up being later than the 'biological' bedtime - hence battles.

He says that between 10 and 12 months, 17% of babies drop to only one nap, but they need an earlier bedtime. (The others all need 2 naps still.) If the morning nap is too long, they may refuse the afternoon nap. In this case, move bedtime much earlier and/or wake your baby after an hour / hour and a half in the morning.

By 15 months, half of babies are having one nap and half are having 2 naps still.

Apparently lots of babies end up following the 2-3-4 pattern: first nap 2 hours after waking; second nap 3 hours after waking; bedtime 4 hours after waking. That would fit with Iggly's suggestion of doing things by the clock as long as there's a fairly consistent wake up time.

Are you like me Angel with about three hundred books on sleep?? The HSHHC is the best one for explaining how it works, I've found - I ignore the methods for soothing to sleep though.

Ruby, DS's nights are variable - his two top teeth have caused trouble and he was waking every 2-3 hours. He's also had trouble with solids - a lot of food makes him windy (I think it's because he has reflux). So now I have to give him really plain dinners. The last few nights he has settled down again and last night he only woke at 11pm. He goes to bed between half 6 and 7. If he's tired, I'll make sure he's in bed by half 6.

Well, I think it's only 10 books on sleep I've read so far. HSHHC and the No-Cry Sleep Solution have been the two I've found most helpful. You can tell from that combination what I think of Weissbluth's methods.

Apparently Richard Ferber's updated book is even more detailed than HSHHC in terms of explaining how it works. It's £30 on Amazon, but only a tenner from the States... ooh, I'm tempted.

I'm tempted too! I'll see if I can get my library to get it instead. Have spent so much on these books but most are useless

My library doesn't have it in the catalogue, sadly. (And apparently you need to get the 2006 edition, not the 1980s one as he's changed his mind on some things since the first one.)

Yes, most book are useless, but I like to feel I'm in a state of informed despair.

My favourite was one which told me that stroking a baby's nose would infallibly send any infant to sleep. Just try it next time your baby is hysterical with overtiredness...

My DS is 13 months old but I dropped the am nap a while ago simply because if he slept in the morning he wouldn't sleep in the afternoon and so there was a long stretch between the morning nap and bedtime.
The 'afternoon' nap starts almost exactly halfway through his day, ie midday, should call it his midday nap really.

Angel I know exactly what you mean - and as for the forehead stroking. I've tried it and DS tried to chew my finger The library has the old version but I've found the book here and might order it...

Frog how is your DS at night? I'll have a think about the morning nap when he gets a bit older

all this info is fab - thanks. feeling more optimistic today - he woke at 6:40 after waking twice since 3am feed but he put himself back to sleep - i didn't have to get out of bed so that was a real breakthrough! we've had a 9am nap today and a 1pm nap today and we're aiming for a 7pm bedtime - proper routine queen over here! he's currently chasing a ball round the flat so i hope he is wearing himself out!

we shall see what tonight brings!

Fingers crossed! Hopefully they're all going to settle down now.

I'm laughing Ruby because my DS is also chasing a ball. Are you me?!

Lol - i might just be!

So DS threw a complete wobbly - he started sobbing uncontrollably after i left him for ten minutes after the longest nicest bedtime routine ever! i kept going in and calming him down and he was calm so i left again etc etc after about 30minutes of this he starting really howling and wouldn't calm down. i sat him on my knee to try and talk him down and he just kept headbuttng my boobs so i fed him again - he then proceeded to choke on the milk right at the end of the feed and started coughing and threw up all over my hand and the floor! then i repeated the above process fed him AGAIN and at this point he passed out - so in all i fed him three times . i was all up for being bad cop mum and he just went ballistic!

Bedtimes have officially gone beserk!