Can we ask for feedback on the Mumsnet Books please?

[JustineMumsnet]

Just had a meeting with the publisher and they are not, shall we say, flying off the shelves despite the fact that everyone who reads them says how brilliant/funny they are. Sales via MN particularly are pretty poor.

So - can you give us some pointers as to why you aren't buying/recommending these utterly marvellous books, packed full of MN wisdom please?

Have you heard about them - do we need to shout more? Or do you feel you don't need them, because you've got MN at your fingertips, or, perish the thought perhaps you just don't like the look of them?

Oh yes, and I whinged about it a while back - there is nowhere you can buy it using paypal (again, selling ON here could cover that). Online people often have the odd £8 or whatever floating about in paypal that they are more likely to spend than "real" money

Also how about a mumsnet guide to going back to work - that'd be a lot more useful than the frankly swamped toddler and babycare book market.

Which would include such things as:

(1) 'what to do when you don't know what to do' where that point you realise you can no longer have a world conquering career because you want to be back from work to kiss the kids goodnight. Ideas for alternative careers.
(2) Squaring the circle - how to afford childcare and what options work for different ages
(3) Coping with the guilt
(4) Working as a single parent.

etc.

(I would buy the small kitchen, 3 pan book btw )

Lots of consistent feedback here, Justine.

What did your publishers say? Do they have a view? And, more importantly, did they have any suggestions for you?

It is their responsibility to help market your books, as your publisher, surely?

I'm old and well past that stage! If I was at the right stage then I still wouldn't buy them because I think that reading a lot of books is a mistake, if I did read one I would want one consistent approach that I respected, I can read it all on mumsnet, only some of the comments are helpful.

People gave me all my pregnancy and baby books and I in turn passed them all on to other people once I'd already had a couple of kids (apart from the reference one about symptoms of diseases). I don't think I bought any at all.

MN is great because you can easily find info on your specific situation, or someone else who has very relevant experience to you. Books are obviously generic.

I would buy a book about Justine and Carrie and setting up Mumsnet and how it took off etc. Have you done one of those? That could be great.

great idea from whomovedmychocolate - a guide to going back to work would be a winner.

I think that we could do with some of those "Look inside this book" things on Amazon because a couple of the reviews say that the book is just a collection of anecdotes and one of those click-throughs of a few pages would dispell that idea.

Just looking on Amazon again...Hmmm.... yes perhaps the covers are TOO tasteful and need to be a bit funnier. I bought the Kaz Cooke (?) book too. Maybe they look a bit too coffee-table.

If Amazon sales are not good then where ARE they selling? From bookstores? The supermarket does seem the more likely place to find a mum of a toddler - I've not been into a book store for about seven years....No idea how you get into supermarkets though, probably very hard unless you are actually having an affair with the book distributor for Asda (I could perhaps try this?)

Agree with whomoved and wilf's book suggestions. My tuppenceworth is that I wouldn't look to MN for books on raising kids, I've got books that tell me that sort of thing and in fact I come to MN usually when the books have let me down, or I need information more specific to my exact situation.

I think, for me, a large part of the appeal of MN is that it's not 'just' about raising kids. There's also everything else on the practical side, so like the things whomoved and wilf suggested.

For me where a lot of current books/online info let me down (excluding MN) is that they are very theoretical when actual real-life info would be more useful, on things like:

• How to plan a family holiday when you've never been a family before, possibly with MN star ratings for establishments?

• How to juggle baby's first Christmas - e.g. managing expectations of Dparents/DPILs, Father Xmas vs not doing Father Xmas, etc

Actually a guide to being a good grandparent might be useful - unless the Fearnley-Whittingstall (sp?) book has that sewn up. Doesn't cover grandfathers though, I don't think... I tend to buy books as presents more than for myself, so maybe books that could be given as gifts to people around the 'mums' on here and perhaps not labelled as 'Mumsnet' so prominently would help.

• How to choose childcare, possibly with a MN ratings/reviews? What can you expect from facilities, e.g. in terms of napping arrangements, them sticking to your routine or not, how to deal with the practicalities etc etc

• An MN guide to breastfeeding might also be useful, although possibly a treacherous path to tread, but for what it is worth, I personally felt badly let down by the BF info out there. The whole "watch out for mastitis, oh and you will get sore nipples" info that seems to be all you get regarding how hard it actually is seems woefully inadequate, and the books are all a bit lentil-weavery as far as I found, which is great in theory but not everyone finds it comes naturally and as a result I personally found I felt set up to fail by having problems beyond mastitis/soreness. And while I do realise that if people think it is hard, it may put some people off, on the other hand if the scope of people's experiences are reflected more realistically then forewarned is forearmed and I would have felt more supported/normal if the range of potential issues had been flagged up - e.g. small mouth baby and big nipples - before I had a desperate baby and was pretty desperate myself. And I say this as someone who ended up expressing for 3 months as DD wouldn't/couldn't feed from the breast but really wanted to. [steps off soapbox]]

Some of the above would probably be more pamphletty than books, but I wouldn't mind paying £2-£3 for them, while £8 is up the top end for a paperback for me. Hardbacks are too cumbersome so I wouldn't buy that anyway.

I found MN talkboards when very near due date, and it was a lifeline initially and now has become an addiction substitute friend excellent source of entertainment/info/etc. I don't really use the rest of the site (sorry).

Sorry, that was rather longer than I intended

See, I wouldn't buy a book like this from the supermarket, because I don't browse in a supermarket. If I were to buy one, it would be after flicking through in a bookshop. That's how I buy cookery books, or decorating, or something like that.

But I have managed to get through 9 years of pregnancy and parenthood without buying a book about it, so I'm really no use to you at all...

I had a flick through one of them in a bookshop and there isn't much editorial there (and what there is is just summarising the views expressed in the quotes) and so could not see what I would get from it beyond doing a search on here.

I did think the illustrations were wonderful though, but couldn't justify buying a book just to look at the pictures

I would definitely buy a teenagers book, as I see that looming (well, 5 years away) and it scares me and feels like the absolute unknown. In fact, my sole method of dealing with a teenager would be to ask myself 'what would Julie Myerson do?' and then do the opposite.

The illustrations in the pregnancy one are especially good.

I've been thinking about this, and I thought last night along the lines that Wilf, WMMC and Hobs have said here. MN should maybe be doing something a bit different?

Maybe they should be books more like, A Rough Guide to Family Life - which doesn't exist. The MN Guide to Modern Family Life.

Chock full of all sorts of information and thoughts about holidays, working, not working, benefits, children's books etc.

it'd be more distinctive perhaps? I can't remember what the other ones in the book series were going to be. But perhaps by repackaging it - as a handy reference book / companion book - it might be more distinctive?

It'd be like an archive digest -

Holidays with Teenagers

Holidays with Babies

Best ways to get homework done without anyone being murdered

Best baby seats

How to Go back to work.

The possibilities are endless. And the market is wider - for anyone and everyone in a modern family, regardless of age, wisdom, telephone numbers, handy hints for a rainy day etc.

You must do this. It'll be a one-stop all shop book.

Sorry, haven't read all thread. I bought Mumsnet on Babies when I was pregnant, and loved it - that's how i found the website. It was in the parenting section of Borders, which was open till 11 in those palmy days, and I'd practically moved in down there. MoB was wonderful, much less preachy than most of the books (I lasted for half a page of What to Expect) and I read it until it pretty much fell to bits.

Then I had my baby... I was amazed how little use any of the books I'd bought were with the very specific problems I had. In fact, I think I bought 3 parenting books and not ONE even had a mention of jaundice, for example (perhaps I'm misremembering, but even so). Then I found my baby book pile again when ds was 8 months or so, realised that in most cases it was all irrelevant now, or completely failed to fit with any of my experience, and chucked them all out. Anyway, by then I was spending most of my life a few minutes a day on here and if I had any questions I could get specific answers in real time. Also I must say, because MoB was not preachy, it was a bit like one of those threads on here where 5 people tell you on no account to do something, 5 people tell you you MUST do it, and you end up doing what you originally felt like doing anyway. Quite satisfying in its way but I don't really want to pay another £9 for it.

If you want to have another go, I think possibly a Mumsnet's Fifty Funniest Posts book for the loo would be most relevant to the average parental attention span life.

Something I would have paid for big time was a breastfeeding counsellor service over the web, with a webcam et al. Why doesn't that exist yet? Maybe it does.

I've just got back from Borders and did a spot test/review for you.

GOOD GRIEF how many parenting books are there? There was like a whole freaking aisle of them. Took me a bloody age to find a mn book (the toddler one, couldn't find the others).

Firstly, am I in it??? I have a good search for myself and was left wanting

The spine colour...burgundy...well it's a bit steady isn't it. Not sure you can do anything about that now, but maybe for the next run jazz up the spine a bit. Put a picture of an amusing vegetable, or Edward Cullen or something.

I liked it, the cartoons were great (is that Boco's work?) and the lay out etc all seemed fine. It's just you are competing in such a giganticor market. Maybe you need a good by-line...

Advice from people who are not cocks and actually have children.

I dunno, am not a creative type.

I loved the illustrations (but then I loved the Christmas Cards too!)

Didn't buy because
a) I am past the childbirth/toddler stage
b) I didn't buy childcare books when I was in that stage anyway
c) I know how to use search on MN

How about a cookbook? The "Mumsnet Guide to making a delicious nutritious meal for 4 that even small children will eat, whilst holding a baby, shouting at your husband, and arguing with someone online"

Catchy!

Slubber I did the ones in the pregnancy books but not the toddler book.

oh

Well the toddler cartoons were good, but maybe probably the pregnacy cartoons are even better , what with you having the skilz and all boco.