Troll hunting

[TheArmadillo]

As troll hunting season seems to be upon us once more and MNHQ have tried several times to outline their troll policy over the years I've been here and it has had little affect. Is there a way that troll hunting can be discouraged?

on threads like this where someone name changes to accuse OP of trolling.

This seems wrong because:
a) if the OP is trolling then surely there is no harm caused. They are not asking for people's money or contacting people offline (afaik)

b) if the OP isn't trolling there is a great deal of upset caused to them.

c) the only reason for calling 'troll' seems to be that their posting style seems familiar to one or two mners.

It seems that trolling accusations are now being thrown at people who have been round a while posting, not just newbies.

Also while I appreciate some trolls do cause posters a lot of upset and problems (I have seen a few) these are rare and tend to be more obvious than a thread on a sensitive asking purely for advice and nothing else.

Plus as MNHQ are unlikely to be able to tell if someone is trolling unless extreme and repeated. And even then not 100%

Would it be a good idea to have a policy of deleting posts crying troll? They cause upset and are offensive to those accused at difficult times. Any serious concerns re trolling can still be reported to MNHQ via the report this post function.

It seems that asking people to stop doing it isn't having any affect and I for one think it is damaging MN because it does put people, especially newbies off posting for advice on serious issues.

Anyone else got a view.

Lenin you put it well. Goes without saying that even if nobody mentioned it on a thread, the OP can generally assume that someone, somewhere is doubting their veracity...and a lot of poeple owned up to having avoided the DM threads for that very reason. So do we compel every member of MN to make a generous and empathic comment on these sensitive threads in order to assuage any worries the OP/troll may have as to their believed status?

I agree with the OP.

Troll-hunting is sometimes as nasty and attention seeking as trolling itself, and has the power to do as much harm to a vulnerable poster.

And yet there is so much vitriol directed at potential trolls on account of the potential harm they could be wreaking. And very little criticism of the happy troll-shouters, despite the possibility that they could be kicking vulnerable posters when they are down.

There should be a hierarchy of action if you're suspicious

1. Report to MN. If nothing is done, and you honestly believe people are being sucked in:
2. Post something sensitive like "please remember that this is an internet board and be careful about what you share as you don't know who's reading this"
3. If that doesn't work THEN maybe mention the T word. But there's no need to jump in first off the bat when all that's being offered is helpful advice.

I don't believe that you EVER need to resort to the namecalling and hurtful comments I've seen on some threads. Comparing someone's life to a "bad novel"? How is that ever necessary?

troll hunters deffo need to get out more....plus no way of knowing the troll hunters arn't occasional trolls.....who would know..?

having been called a troll more times than i can remember it all gets very boring...

this is the internet....there will always be weirdos around....report to MNHQ and let them deal with it..

I actually went on a major troll hunt for someone who was putting herself forward as an expert in a certain area and upsetting posters. She wasn't a "troll in hiding" though. She was who she said she was, but it was proved that she had none of the qualifications and experience she said she did. She upset a lot of people. I haven't seen her since.

And I also agree with Lenin - I don't believe that shouting troll is actually a deterrent to trolls at all.

They are up for a reaction and a barney - a big argument with lots of shouts of "troll" flying back and forth is probably their idea of heaven.

The only purpose of shouting troll on a sensitive* thread is when you honestly think MNers are being harmed. And even then you can do it politely.

(I say sensitive thread because there are those threads that are just blatantly up for a laugh and barely even pretending to be for real - I'm thinking of the "flick the old bean" one ).

I have been here mumble mumble (far too long) years. In the last year there has been at least one Troll who has caused harm and is (at least to me) quite obvious in posting style. This person, or persons, often attacks those who recognise them (although rarely on the thread in question) and I feel drained by them. Not because they have ever attacked me, but because it makes me question the support I offer and ask for.

In all of this I never feel any animosity towards the (so called) troll hunters. Because when I have been reading a thread emotively rather than rationally they have often reminded me to be more cautious.

It's trolls I hate.

I want to make that more than clear.

Trolls are always scum, troll hunters may sometimes be wrong.

But in all honesty when a troll hunter cries "Troll!" and the OP replies "No I'm not!" then the OP has usually been genuine.

It's only when the goes undisputed that my (most generous) radar comes online.

Trolls are selfish and egotistical.

Troll hunters are at least trying to do good.

I am a relatively new MNer and finally plucked up the courage to say something that had been on my mind for years (MollieO, you were one of those kind enough to respond). It really upset me that almost immediately someone accused me of being a troll which was a term I was completely unaware of at the time apparently for no better reason than I tried to give as much background information as possible and that when people responded I thanked them. It almost seemed to completely negate why I joined ie to have some fun, to talk to like minded people, to share problems and to help others if I can

madoldbat, don't be put off. It's a right of passage to have a bad thread. I'm still having them now

I think you have to look at what you're hoping to achieve in shouting troll.

If the OP is raising a genuine question, getting good advice, maybe raising an interesting debate - who's being harmed? Does it really matter if they're real? Can we ever really know if anyone on MN is real? Are the people being "sucked in" by their car-crash life any more at risk than the people addicted to and identifying with car-crash East Enders characters, or real MNers with tragic, rollercoaster lives?

If you don't shout troll nobody is really harmed, and some bystanders end up getting good advice.

If you shout troll you risk kicking off a flame war or hurting a real, vulnerable person.

Thanks for that, was starting to wonder...
oh no, must be a troll I thanked you

madoldbat Troll!

I think we are forgetting who the bad guys are.

If trolls didn't think it was funny to post about emotive subjects (death, miscarriage, abuse) then this would not be an issue. We would be laughing at the funny trolls with the odd sex addictions and no one would bother to shout anything.

But people have been genuinely hurt by some particularly vindictive trolling this year. And I won't stop saying it is the trolls who are in the wrong and not the hunters (who exist after the fact).

agree TYV....

truth is often stranger than fiction....no way of ever knowing 100% if something (or someone) is for real.....and who really gives a toss..?

the troll hunters are frustrated detectives with too much time on their hands..

i've been here 2 years....have only seen 2 or 3 threads i thought were started by trolls.....i just ignorned them....

you will never stop people trolling on the internet...it's just too easy....

Now I'm worried - is thanking bad? I say "thank you" all the time on here. I was on a thread the other day when someone suggested the OP was a troll and I didn't really know what that meant until I read this.

I have only been affected by one troll in the 3 and half years I have been on here(she had lots of disguises) so they arn't that rife.

oh no 2shoes.....was it me...?

Well my ma brought me up proper so I will defend my right to say thank you ad nauseum.
OMG Thanks and verbose, definitely a troll

I don't think thanking is bad! I always do it.

In fact it peeves me right off when someone posts a peremptory request for specific information/advice and then buggers off without thanking any of the posters.

I have been known to post "you're welcome " on occasion.

Oh I hate that. Some people do it all the time...'what is the best way to do such and such'...[several helpful responses]'do you do it like this then?'[several more helpful replies] 'I don't know if it would work for me doing it like that' [everyone abandons ungrateful thread starter to find their own sodding way to do it then]

In fact I am trying to think of any way in which thanking might be considered trollish, I suppose the only thing that might ring alarm bells is that continuous thanking is a way of bumping the thread and keeping it going.

But that's about it really. The other indicators that people cite when calling troll is

1. posting an enticing OP and then going silent for ages or
2. posting an enticing op and then drip-feeding information throughout the thread.

So on that basis, you can't win

Oh good julliet, I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds it infuriating

The ones I hate are the ones that say "Quick urgent - need a recipe for pastry" or "Need directions to Whipsnade zoo!!!!!" or "When is it safe to give cow's milk?".

Everyone helpfully does the lazy sod's googling for them, and then they never come back to the thread. I don't know what's more annoying - thinking that they've read it and not bothered to thank everyone, or thinking that they haven't even been arsed to read all the helpful responses.

Luckily someone showed me this marvellous site which I shall be making free use of