School holidays - cost of travel and taking kids out in term time poll - the results!

[JustineMumsnet]

Morning,

So it seems that understandably we're pretty angry about school holiday price hikes. (see results of MN survey below). Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts about what next - we could release these findings and they might make a news item but should we be trying to do more - effect policy in some way, put direct pressure on the travel companies, lobby abta or something... anyone got any ideas on what next?

Here are the key findings:

4 out of 5 (81%) of parents said they felt angry about the price hikes in holidays during the school holidays and 74% felt that the travel companies were exploiting parents who had no choice about holiday dates. 62% said that the cost of taking a break during school holidays was stopping them from going away.

More than half (56%) of parents surveyed said they would take their children out of school during term time for a beach or relaxing holiday, with the figure rising to 80% if it was a once in a lifetime, long haul trip. Of those who had already taken their child out of school during term time 43% cited cost as the reason for doing so.

Other findings:

? More than 40% of parents say their school strongly discourages parents from taking children out of school during term time, but at these schools, 77% report parents do it anyway, often citing the 10 day guideline.

? 58% of parents agreed that taking a child out of school for a holiday is hard on the teachers

? 66% agreed that children can learn as much from being on holiday a being at school.

I am absolutely dead against changing the terms to 5 shorter ones. The summer holidays are short enough (just on 5 weeks for dd for the last 4 years ). If I had not had the long summer holidays to get over the bullying I endured at school, I would actually be dead (tried to kill myself twice by the time I had left primary). I wouldn't reduce summer hols any further for that simple reason - they really can help to save a life.

I am with GiggleWitch. Allow up to two weeks term time absence, but don't encourage it. Put in place a serious requirement for proof of some sort of learning during the time out, or provide some decent 'homework' (holiday work).

Staggering holidays could mean that some families will never be able to get together properly.

I suspect whatever is done, if anything, about school holidays, there will always be some who will take their children out in term time. Isn't it better to have a basic provision for the inevitable?

I'm not angry with the travel cos for hiking their prices, that's capitalism in action, and that's how we live in the west, like it or lump it.

Maybe schools should have some booklet priduced for the child to take with them to complete, that is age appropriate. Something that can be used by any child int hat year group to complete about their holiday, but incorporates things involving certin curriculum subjects.

Wouldn't take long to produce and if left vague enough it could be used year on year.

Child just brings it back after holiday to share in circle time (at primary level) or maybe to present at secondary level.

very interesting ideas here, agree that 'work' could be set for children who are taking holiday in term time.

not sure if i would like more holidays in the colder/wet weather.

The important thing with work set by school is to ensure it does not cause extra work for the teachers. Which is whyI would suggest that the results of the work are shared in somewhere, such as in circle time, rather than having to be marked by a teacher.

Ok, how about this?

Bring the school year forward so the exams are taken straightish after christmas then have the summer holidays starting earlier, perhaps the beginning/middle of June, then have the first half term of the year after the summer holidays with a 2 week floating holiday.

That way we would have our long holidays at the warm time of the year but at a slightly different time to some other countries. We could have a slightly flexiable holiday to allow for parents with problems getting time off and it would still be at a warm time of year ie at the end of August/beginning of September.

If teachers knew that there was only one half term of the year (the first one) where the class could be disrupted by holidays then they could plan for that term to be more workbook or research based as this is work that can easily be done anywhere meaning that teachers will not have to put any real effort into providing work to do whilst away and so shouldn't have to spend time catching children up when they arrive back to school.

It would also make things a bit easier on employers as premium summer holidays would be spread over a much longer period (beginning June to end September). It would also give access to lower priced holidays at the start/end of summer.

If you bring the GCSEs and A levels forward by 2 terms then you lose 2 terms of learning. And this would then impact on any modular exams takem; they would all have to moved backwards.

This wouldmean that GCSEs would have to start sometime in Y9, finishing in Jan Y11; then children need to do something whilst waiting for results (but what and where?) and if they are do do A levels, to get the 2 terms back they need to be starting those Feb in Y11 at the latest, but would GCSEs results be there by then? If not how can they chose what to do?

The changing of holidays impacts so much on the whole system. The amount of planning and changes would be immense.

Also, as soon as you move the holidays the travel companies would pick up on it. They would readjust their pricing to take into account when the holidays were. They already have picked up on the private school's early finish and those weeks are now at the higher price brackets. It wouldn't take them long to adjust prices. You'd maybe get one year on cheaper prices.

I like KingCanute's suggestions except for the limit on when the 'extra' holiday could be taken.

I can't guarantee, for instance, when my cousin decides to visit from NZ with her 3 children; I am not going to have them all staying with me for a week with dd having to go off to school everyday while her youngest cousin, the same age as her, is here on hol.

Similarly, if my aunt's 90th birthday falls in June and she is having a huge whole-family get-together to celebrate, dd will miss a day at school in order to see the family. I'm not going to tell my aunt to celebrate her birthday in September because dd's school won't let her come otherwise. Nor am I going to lie to the school and pretend dd's sick.

The 'extra' hol is entirely discretionary and is, I think, there for occasions such as the ones I've suggested. They are not there because it's cheaper to go away at another time of year, and I don't think that should really change. I think you should have a pretty good reason for taking your child out of school, and I personally don't think a better deal on a holiday is good enough.

So why can't the 10days apply to teachers too?
Jux, a very close family member of mine got married on a Friday in September. I would very dearly loved to have gone as she is a cousin who is more like a sister. Unfortunately, as it was term time I couldn't go.

Yes I know I'm an adult who has made the decision to join this profession but that is no different to the adult parents who make the decisions to take their children out of school in term time.

Hula, I don't mean move them earlier in the school year like that, I mean end the school year earlier so they are still at the end of the school year but the school year ends earlier IYSWIM?

I don't want spread out holidays (purely from my pov)- the only place we can go is the UK, we don't want to go when it's pissing down with rain but when it's sunny; a shorter summer holiday will push UK holiday prices up even more in that gap and I would think have a great negative impact on the tourism industry as well

At the moment it works for us; ds3 attends schoola cross county borders (an SNU) so if different Counties taggered holdidays we'd end up far worse off for the childcare isue once I go abck to work.

I like it the way it is, it's not perfect for us (once I am working I wont be allowed term time rbeaks but DH's main work period will be summer) but at least we know where we are atm. Sister runs a holiday club so can't have time off during that- satggered holidays would make it impossible for her and her family to go away, if she had to cover say 12 wees for different schools dates

One suggestion is to - Go for the four term option. As I've got a reliable twenty year old in my family at uni which finished at the end of June , I can now go on holiday out of school time. I meet Irish and Scottish families every time I go at the end of June or late Sept/first week October. The Scots have had it sussed for years.

Suggestion Two - Having gone back to read a few more comments and a bit shocked at JUX. DD1 was bullied (seriously) once and I know how long that can stay with someone. However he is DD1 - now 20 - at Uni - he may do a third year, if he's done enough to stay. He was very dyslexic and had all the "thick, stupid" names chucked at him. Anyway so, moving on. Suggestion Two -
Get DCFS to take the pressure off EVERY head teacher in England and Wales. Get them to say "we believe children will be happier for one or two weeks holidays with their family". Not so long ago a European wide survey found that British children are the unhappiest in Europe. Any decent Psychologist or Psychology book would tell the DCFS that a fun time spent with their family will inspire, educate and rejuvinate (child and parent). Time away from the normal drudge and duty is positive : the beach at Tenby out of season can be inspirational - sitting in 8 hour traffic queues to Devon is soul destroying, but then our dear Mr Ed Balls has probably never done it.

I agree with Hula changing/staggering holidays will surely just mean even more expensive weeks

I'ma a bit for GN though pre kids I would never have wanted to go away in school holidays it was June and September for me.

I'm not really attracted by 4 terms or June school holidays TBH (but I'm a real stick in the mud )

Actually I have just spotted an idea which was trialled around here, where teh concept was GREAT but the execution could have been better.

Each school child was given a voucher (for £200 I think) off a holiday which could be used at a local travel agents. It was only applicable for holidays booked wholey outside of term time.

There are still some drawbacks, but not that aren't without potential solutions. The drawbacks were:

1. Could only be used at 1 travel agent, so a little restricted on choice. I think it was also aimed at oversea's holidays, leaving a gap in the UK market.
2. Even after deducting the value of the voucher the holiday was still more expensive that taking the same holiday in termtime in many cases.
3. I have only seen them do this once, a couple of years ago...maybe it wasn't popular for the above reasons.

This has the potential fantastic scheme which the Government could in principal lend support/funding to this if they wanted to. It could be kind of like the free childcare for 3 yo scheme. The voucher values would need to be a little higher to make it realistically viable and there would need to be the facility to take abroader range of holidays - which could DEFINATELY happen if the Government was to support it.

Ye gods - in the midst of the worst recession in living memory, a national debt that will take generations to repay and someone is suggesting subsidising holidays for people so that they can afford to go during school holidays.

You're quite quite demented.

seeking - if schools all change to 4 term it would take the travel companies less than a year to follow sit and adjust their pricing accordingly.

Actually the local scheme was fully funded by teh travel agent...but it just wasn't enough to make it viable. some government incentive to help the travel agents help us could worrk. It doesn't have to be financial support. If it is structured appropriately there could be scope for supporting the british tourist industry, which would retain benefits for the country...

Here's a novel thought from an educationalist. What would happen if you opened schools on the same basis as nurseries? That is Monday to Friday, 8am to 6pm, 50 weeks a year, with parents and staff booking holidays as required (probably within some kind of reasonable core time parameter, with a set number of discretionary weeks holiday each year, avoiding exam times and some key school events)?

In a society where we don't all trot off to church for every holy day, and in which we no longer are predominantly agricultural, surely it's time to ditch terms based on religion and crop growing altogether?

I wonder if families would end up less stressed all around?

Can't think of anything worse Boffinmum. I dn't want DD at school 50 weeks a year! I want her home lots having lots of un and play. And 8-6 is horrendously long for a day at school for children. When do they relax before bedtime?

Leave the system as it is but allow parents to take the 10 days without any begative stuff from school. Simply IMO.

I didn't mean 50 weeks as it is at the moment!! I meant that kids would still be able to have the same amount of holiday as at present, only that it would be at a time of the parents' choosing, and that they would have to attend for 4-6 core hours a day on the days that they were there, but could also be there for additional time if their parents felt this would be helpful/appropriate.

It's just that it could be a lot more flexible than it currently is, especially now there's supposed to be more personalised learning anyway. This way it could be adapted both for parents that wanted their kids at home a bit more, as well as those who needed them looked after while they were at work.

I am not sure how that could work with teachers ensuring the currciculum is taught and covered by all pupils, esp if you have pupils potentially all having a different set of 12 weeks off throughout each year, as wll as teachers off.

Even with personalised learning it sounds like a planning nightmare. Sorry.

Why not do the same as in Germany, where different areas go on holiday at different times? The earliest school holidays start in June, and the latest (us!), in August.
We don't go back to school until mid-September.
The holiday season is thus lengthened from 6 weeks to around 2 months (mid-June to mid-September).

Of course, its pretty bad luck if you move from the latest to the earliest one during the summer holidays...

should read 3 months, obviously