Chat threads

[tech]

We are going to start "retiring" threads in the _chat topic once they are over 30 days old.

What this means is that once they are 30 days old (since last contribution rather than since starting) you won't be able to add messages to them any more - they'll still be in the archive search, they just won't have the "add a message" box at the bottom, and they won't be in the thread lists under the topic. This list is at over 8500 entries currently and becoming useless.

If archive searching starts to slow down, we might start deleting chat threads from the board altogehter after a certain time. As the content of these threads tends to be chats (surprisingly enough) rather than requests for information, there's not a huge amount of point keeping them for future reference.

On the subject of chat, we are currently test-driving chatroom software with a view to putting a live chatroom up on the site - for them as wants.

Good-day all,
Lots of very valid issues raised here. We are looking at the possibility of a chat room but have emphatically not decided on one yet and wouldn't ever introduce it without consulting you - we didn't mean to suggest otherwise, sorry.

There are some good arguments for and against. We've had a lot of call for one and obviously many are wary. Here's how we see it (but haven't tested it yet and haven't decided anything yet so let's have the debate).
It would run alongside the current talk.
It would be moderated and open for set periods - evenings perhaps.

The pros as we see it -
Lots of people like to use them - plenty of mumsnetters use msn for this - why not stay on here and do it?
Conversations flow more easily.

Cons -
More rows perhaps - although as people say at least there's no record so the rancour doesn't keep getting re-hashed.
Not wanting mumsnet to have a chat room because of the connotations (certainly a valid position).
Conversations get lost.

We are pretty neutral on the subject as it happens but we thought we should look at it and perhaps give it a trial - but only of course if members agree.

On the subject of other changes, really the only thing that's changed in the last little while is being able to have a pic in member profile (and classifieds). Whilst we understand people's reservations about this too, we think it's not a particularly big deal, it makes some folk happy and in general it's not particularly intrusive? But again if the majority disagree....

On the review question raised by Enid and Anteater, call me a pedant but in the last month we've updated strollers, three-wheelers, slings, highchairs and trikes. Backpacks, pushchairs from birth to follow in the next couple of weeks. And by April they will all have been updated this year. We are pretty much working full time on reviews right now.

Anyway the debate's in full flow now - so please do add your two-penneth. We're sure there are some pros and cons we've not thought of... .

By the way we've added an active conversations with no chat link at the top of the page. Hope you like it - let us know if you don't .

Justine - have you checked the legal position with respect to a chatroom? I vaguely recall new legislation for sites to have some record of what was said in chatrooms in case police want copies of it - particularly if minors access it (which of course, in a site such as mumsnet, you can't really prevent) and you'd want some sort of disclaimer about it being an adult forum before entering would you?

Can't say I'm thrilled with the idea of a chatroom (would just make mumsnet more addictive, imo - and I prefer using MSN because I can get on with other stuff while still keeping in contact with people) but not so anti it that I would prevent people who wanted it having it, iyswim.

Do check out the legal side of things though, please.

I don't see the difference between a chatroom and MSN?

If neutral is the position of the MN team, then does that mean that site changes will always follow the user majority, whatever that may be?

Hi GeorginaA,
We would have a record at HQ - everything would be logged - it's just that once a user leaves the chatroom they lose the record and next time they enter they start afresh as it were - though could always copy a transcript I suppose. Thanks for the thought though.

My main concern would be who uses it, if it's the same posters who are on the threads then fair enough, can't see a problem at all, I would be concerned about people changing their nickname just to make nasty comments though, and especially, people who aren't usual MNers coming to the site and abusing it, how would MN regulate who uses it?

It's a debate Anteater let's have it and see what the pros and cons are - it's not just about numbers, no, we think if people feel very, very strongly then that counts too. If a chat room would cause long-standing and valuable members of mumsnet to think about leaving then we'd take that very seriously, naturally.

Hi Seashells,
It's a valid concern - should have said that if we did this people would have to register the in the same way as they do now to use the chat room. We suppose the real issue is does the very fact that it's a chat room make it more likely to attract pervs and trolls than a discussion forum/ chat topic would? The only reason we could think that it would, is that because conversations are more private and not saved on screen for all to read at a later date, trolls would find it easier to operate. By the same token of course people would find it easier to have a private or semi private conversation which is appealing to some...

stickynote: the difference between MSN and a chatroom is that in general MSN can be on in the background while no-one is talking and you can get on with stuff. It beeps if someone says something to you. It's fairly unobtrusive. It's also Microsoft's liability not Mumsnet's .

With a chatroom, you tend to be on it in a browser window, conversation flows, it's very easy to feel that you can't leave the screen in case you "miss" anything (hell, mumsnet is addictive enough - but at least I can read what's being said at a later time). Because things are quick, people are generally more free to post things without thinking or that they wouldn't put on a message board - couple that with nickname changes and you have the capability for a lot of damage to be done very quickly. MSN you generally know who you are talking to (as you've registered - your email address is on display) so there's far less opportunity for keyboard warriors.

There is a reason chatrooms are always in the news as a big no-no for kids .

In my time, I have wasted a hell of a lot of my real life on a chatroom (okay, IRC - one of the originals and best) - I had friends at university who threw away their degrees over IRC and MUDs (a sort of chatroom with a game attached - even more addictive). I know how addictive they can be. This is why I have to confess to feeling less than happy about the prospect of a chatroom on mumsnet.

That said, if people want it then fair enough. I've just got to work out someway of exercising some self-discipline on myself

Had a thought - if it's semi-private conversations you're hoping to have would PIMs be a better way forward (sort of mini-emails - when you log in you'd be able to see if you had a message waiting for you).

Pros: it could replace the CAT system, can have a more private conversation without giving up any personal info.
Cons: you'd lose the moderation aspect - upsetting messages would get through.

Moderation is another issue for the chatroom actually - how are you going to handle that?

Thanks for that. I think my vote would be a big "NO" then - I like the fact that I can come on here at any time of the day (or night) and catch up on things. I like the fact that MNetters all over the world can contribute to threads. I really don't see the need for this and I think it would drive a lot of people away.

Just MHO obviously .

I havent time to read the whole thread but just to add my twopennorth

Re the recent addition of lots more dads - I have absolutely no objection to Dads joining us - lots of their advice is really helpful

But i do object very strongly to the attitude of one dad i read recently who suggested the name Mumsnet ought to be altered because he is insulted by it cos he is a man --

For me Mumsnet is a site for mums - women - ladieeeeees whatever - dads can join - but if it became many more dads that it is now i wouldnt like it so much tbh - Sorry0 if that offends but that is how i feel I want to chat to mums - Dads need their own Dadsnet!

Re a live chatroom - that is what MSN is for surely!!!!!!!!! or another site - I like MN the way it is!

have already offered to mod, how or when would be up to hq, but am about most evenings as you may have noticed

sorry haven't read thread but as its not like me to miss an opportunity to give an opinion

I'm against incorporating a chat area. I think they're divisive, cliquey and if people want to chat real-time then they can use MSN

if you're not a quick typist you can get left behind

people won't preview and any arguments / grudges will spill over onto forums

you won't be able to see how a conversation progresses so if something flares up you won't be able to learn from how it resolves

people can feel ignored in chat, or like an interloper

MSN is more than satisfactory for chatting

it feels a bit 'gang' like

I'm repeating myself so I'll go now

PS I vote NO in case you didn't realise

Don't hold your breath, ks, one of the lovely things about Lou33 is she is everyone's friend and ruthless about modding

Sorry lou, missed that

I meant more in terms of the process though - kicking people out of chat? What criteria consitutes a kick? Bans for a certain period of time? How long does a kick last for?

You have to bear in mind that Mumsnet, bless it, is a sort of organised anarchy - this will get amplified in a chatroom, so I do think you have to be prepared for that and have some more rigid systems in place.

For one thing, several threads on mumsnet have become severely nasty because no-one was around at HQ to do anything about it. You CANNOT rely on that with a 24/7 chatroom - you're going to need to give the mods some sort of actual real power. Which can lead to a whole other set of issues in itself

hehe marina you know me so well

ks i could be bribed with a trip to waitrose tho

live chat on here and msn is diff

you might not want to have a huge list of netters on msn that you have to allow on your list to speak to them, when all you want is a quick chat with someone you may not know that well.

chatrrom would only be open in evenings i think justine said

Part of me would like a chatroom - it would maybe get rid of some of the more inane threads from chat.

I'm like Enid - I never wanted a chat section because I thought it would change Mumsnet, and it has. For the worse IMO. But that is just my opinion, and I recognise that much as I would like Mumsnet to be exactly what I want it to be, it's got to appeal to all sorts of other people as well, many of whom do want a chat section or chatroom.

All good points GeorginaA - though would not be 24/7 would be open for specific time periods. Yes think we would have to think carefully about ejection procedure.

"Oooooo, No!" to a chat room . Sees tumbleweed blowing through threads.

I want to read the rows, tehy are the things that keep me addicted. (So, maybe not a bad idea to get rid of them in chatroom??) But no, no, chat rooms ae soooo inane

Me; "hi, anyone here?"
You: "I am"
Her: "and me"
Me "hi you"
Me:" Oh hi her as well - you ok?"
Her: "yeah, you?
Him: " Hi"
Me: "Hi him
You: "hi me, her and him"
Her "hi him"

ad nauseum

justine, gimme some power, go on go on go on