Should Mumsnet be going to Baby Show ? We need your views

[carriemumsnet]

Hi all

Reposting this here from the Baby Show volunteers thread to make sure we get widest response....

Basically we've had a great response to our appeal for help running a stall at the Baby Show. But now something has come up and, as usual, we want you to contribute to our decision. We've had an email from a mumsnetter saying that Clarion, the Baby Show organisers, also organise arms fairs and questioning whether, in that case, Mumsnet should be associated with them.

I don't think any of us are pro arms, but you could argue that Clarion aren't manufacturing or selling arms, they're just the organisers of a fair.

If we attend the Baby Show we have the chance to introduce Mumsnet (a good thing we hope you'll agree ) to several thousand mums-to-be who will then find out, for example, why lots of Mumsnetters boycott Nestle as well as the truth about fruit shoots and Greggs sausage rolls.

Or we pull out now. It's another one of those 'where do you draw the line?' discussions and we're torn. What do you think?

MNHQ

Don't go

tis shame the attendees will miss out but there it is - I suspect your ideal target audience is otherwhere anyway.

also a shame if MN lose advertising revenoo they may otherwise have scooped but agree there is virtue in not being easily bought.

(I do wonder about the disparity between The Ideal MNer from a) our point of view and b) the advertisers' point of view sometimes. Would they like more bottle-using, Pampers-buying Boden-wearers who alreayd buy the stuff in the ads? Or more bfing clothbottomed scruffs so they can convert them? )

TMMJ: "pull out and do press release about WHY.
going would be dodgy for several reasons.

1. connections with arms dealers
2. would attract too many huns."

I read that and got confused about why we don't want to attract 2nd World War germans.

I agree with all who have posted to say don't go. There are better ways to drum up website hits and registrations. No one will give it much of a look, they're after freebies and "I want one of those" stalls.

Hi, we got in touch with Clarion after we had the original email from the mum querying why MN was thinking of going to the Baby Show. Here's their response:

Dear Carolyn

I wanted to write to you since you recently received a misleading and inflammatory email with regard to our business. I am concerned that this may have alarmed you, and wanted to take this opportunity to personally set the record straight and allay the concerns you have expressed.

As part of Clarion Events? ongoing development, we publicly announced the acquisition of three defence and security exhibitions in May and the acquisition of a further two last month. The email you received inaccurately describes these as ?arms fairs?; in fact, these are trade exhibitions which enjoy full UK and international Government support and which serve only the legitimate global defence industry. Exhibitors, including many leading British companies, must adhere to the highest regulatory standards, not just complying with, but also exceeding domestic and international law.

The email you received implies that the legitimate defence industry contributes to the illegal trade in weapons and human rights around the world - this is not the case. The UK places the strictest controls on the export of defence equipment and services and has led the way in the adoption of the EU Code of Conduct on arms exports.

Clarion Events has been creating and developing high quality exhibitions and events in a wide range of diverse sectors for more than 30 years, from retail to cars and from fine art to energy. Doing so in a well regulated, world class environment is our primary aim and we apply the same very high standards, rigour, experience, skill and care to organising all of our events.

We do not believe that public opinion is opposed to the defence and security industry. Whilst we respect everyone?s right to an opinion we, as you would expect, considered our decision to run events for this sector very carefully and we remain entirely secure with this.

We do believe that visitors and exhibitors at The Baby Show will continue to judge us on the standard of the event and the significant benefits everyone receives as a result of participating. Visitor bookings for the Earls Court show are already ahead of last year. We are looking forward to another very successful event.

I hope my letter answers any concerns you might have and hope that we will work together at this upcoming Baby Show and in the future.

If you do have any further questions however, please feel free to contact me.

Yours sincerely

Matt Miller
Show Manager
The Baby Shows

By Carmenere on Thu 02-Oct-08 14:40:16

Well not going will make feck all difference to the arms trade but going will make lots of difference to mothers lives so i think go*.

his response is as you would expect

i am still of opinion no

this definitely does not answer my comcerns!!!
no body ever suggested it was an arms fair speciifcally tagreted at terrorists and oppressive regimes.
abiding by 'strictest govt guidelines' does not reassure me in the slightest.
'defence and security industry' is just that- an industry, whose highest motivation is profit, therefore they will sell wherever they can.
Don't go. If you look at te Campaign Against the Arms Trade ws, (www.caat.org.uk/campaigns/armsfairs/reedelsevier.php) you will see all the people- academics, HCPs, Joseph Rowntree trust who have objected to these fairs.
Don't go!

NO. You are supporting people who support people who sells guns and bombs which kill people. Legitimate or not. (and half the legitimate dealers deal illicitly anyway - read Private Eye)

there is defence and there is offence

i dont see that anything has changed in the nature of these fairs or the trade since clarion recently took them over

the arguments put forward prevuiously still stand imo

Yes, and again, watch Iron Man.

i really don't think you should go but for the 'too many huns ' reason

Well, they still have that daft C.B-C going and are sponsored by BOUNTY who suck and are, in my cynical little brain, on the road to being as bad as Nestle.
And they don't have disabled changing facilities.
Plus their email is shoite. They are supporting arms, however they do it, or else why would the previous owners have sold up due to public pressure?

To be honest, you would never attend any events/exhibitions/conferences if you didn't want to go to anything associated with arms/defence.

I recruit into this industry - infact, Clarion are a client of mine - the industry is very incestual and most events in the UK will be run by a company affiliated with arms in some way.

We need arms and military defences, yes in an ideal world we wouldn't but this is not an ideal world!

I don't understand what not going is achieving?

If in doubt don't go. I'd say don't go anyway...

previously clarion didnt own these fairs and clarion raqn the majority of fairs and exhibitions so you could go to them without the associtaion now they have bought them true you cant

they shouldnt have bought them should they

that' not even a personal e-mail; if it were it would address what they could offer mn as a unique business: its just a circlar with a name at the top. Cynical.... (and suggestive of how many others conidering same thing.

E-mail them back at the very least and ask why they think they'd be a good choice for a site with a strong sn support side given theres no facillities

But ewe we don't always know that they are in anyway to do with arms.
With this one we do.
MN do not need to go to this fair. They can achieve more publicity (I'm assuming that is what they want) by not going than going.
So why go?

I have a friend who used to come over to the UK to go to the arms fair. He was an arms buyer for the Australian Military. The British Military also would attend these fairs to properly equip (hopefully) the soldiers fighting in Aphganistan/Iraq etc.
Just thought I'd throw that into the equation.

Go.

If you don't, all those mums might end up on another parenting site, and thereby never get the chance to debate moral decisions such as this.

Don't think his email changes anything.

Dont go.

And the involvement of Bounty is adding to my opinion that it is not something MN should associate itself with.

people always say that direct action doesnt make a difference but in fact it can

one person emailed mn

she has made a difference in raising awareness and creating this debate

It's not just the arms though bubbaluv- other issues too

I say go still.

But I have ulteria (sp?) motives cos I wanna help man the stall!!!!

I don't care about it from a publicity for MN perspective to be honest, MN was invaluable to me in the early weeks when my DD was born and I think that the more people who are aware of them (and to be honest, I don't know anyone who has heard of MN and I know LOADS of people who attended the baby shows) then I think they should do it.

Ultimately these events have to exist, someone has to run them, the main exhibitors are electronics companies, vehicle suppliers, equipment suppliers etc. All essentials. Guns are a very small part of the event and not even represented at one of the events. Oh and FWIW when they do have arms manufacturers exhibiting it is normally in a sectioned off area that you have to have security clearance to enter (this was the case when Reed owned them, doubt Clarion will have changed this) - the government do have to buy guns!