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Introducing Pay or Consent on Mumsnet

700 replies

BeckyAMumsnet · 05/02/2025 09:07

Hello everyone.

We wanted to give you a heads-up about a change in the way we deal with cookie consent. We are introducing a Pay or Consent model, giving you two different options to continue accessing the site:

  1. Continue for free with cookies and ads: this is the option that most people have enabled already.
  2. Subscribe to Mumsnet Premium: For those who prefer an ad-free experience with no cookies/tracking for ad purposes - Besides ad-free you’ll also get first access to our product tests plus all revenues from Premium are put towards our campaigning work

Why are we making this change?

The pay or consent model is becoming increasingly common across online platforms as publishers adapt to changes in advertising levels and data privacy regulations. Like many other publishers, we relied on advertising to generate income but changes in tracking regulation and the growing use of ad blockers have made this model less viable.

We know that Mumsnet is an essential space for many - a place to seek advice, find support, and connect with your fellow Mumsnetters. That’s why we’re committed to ensuring that the site remains free at the point of use for anyone who needs it but it’s not fair that those who install ad blockers or rejected cookies are piggy backing on the back of other users who haven’t.

At the same time as introducing this, we’re going to reduce the price of Mumsnet Premium to £2.99 a month because we want to be fair to those who’d rather not accept advertising cookies. This is less than the cost of a flat white a month from most decent coffee shops and we very much hope you think Mumsnet’s worth it! Nb anyone who’s signed up to Mumsnet Premium already at the previous price (£4.99 per month) will have their payments reduced within the next week or so.

We’ll be here to answer any questions you may have. Thank you, as always, for supporting Mumsnet.

OP posts:
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8
FrustratedandBemused · 05/02/2025 16:10

AlertBrickBear · 05/02/2025 16:08

Well it’s not free to run a website so either you allow ads or you pay a small subscription? What other option would you suggest? It’s not a charity.

That PP didn’t mention ads, she said she doesn’t give consent for cookies to harvest her data. That has nothing to do with MN making money from ads.
I think fewer people would use an ad blocker on MN if they didn’t allow through inappropriate ads.

SirChenjins · 05/02/2025 16:10

You need to sort of the shitstorm of the other night - but apart from that I can understand why you’re doing it. Otoh, I have made a pledge never to buy any of the products I see advertised on here on principle. I’m sure I’m not alone.

BloominNora · 05/02/2025 16:18

@BeckyAMumsnet - could you provide the link to your DPIA which demonstrates MNs assessment of the impact of the consent or pay model please? Or at the very least explain how the assessment confirms that you are complying with GDPR.

I may be reading it wrong, but it seems to me that the ICO guidance strongly suggests that the option to accept or pay a single monthly fee makes it difficult to demonstrate that consent is being freely given, especially if there is a power imbalance, which there is between MN and it's existing users, in which case, it is potentially illegal.

Relevant links below with the bits of the guidance relevant to MN highlighted in bold

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/online-tracking/consent-or-pay/about-this-guidance/#law

Bundled access and “consent or pay” models

“Consent or pay” models differ from a “take it or leave it” model, as the presence of a “pay” option means that accessing the service is not solely conditional on people providing consent. This can, providing the model meets the factors in this guidance, enable people to make a meaningful choice.

However, the “pay” option may introduce a separate issue. Where a fee is presented as an alternative to consent, it has the effect of combining:

  • access to the core product or service without personalised advertising; and
  • not sharing personal data for the purposes of personalised advertising.

When the only alternative to consent is paying a single price which combines access to the core product with a fee for avoiding sharing personal data for the purposes of personalised advertising, it can be difficult to demonstrate freely given consent. You can find further details on this in the power imbalance and appropriate fee chapters.

Organisations can offer additional options to access the product or service alongside the “consent or pay” options, for example:

  • Access to the product or service that does not require people to consent to personalised advertising or pay to avoid personalised advertising. This may include access to the service with contextual advertising where advertising is targeted based on the content of the page the user is currently viewing.
  • Offering a menu of options including different premium subscription tiers with additional features, as well as the “consent” and “pay” options.
You can read further details about these options in the power imbalance, appropriate fee and equivalence chapters.

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/online-tracking/consent-or-pay/power-imbalance/

Power Imbalance:

“Consent or pay” models must meet the standard for freely given consent. You must be able to demonstrate that people have a free choice to give consent and that they are not unfairly penalised for refusing or withdrawing consent.

You should assess whether there is a power imbalance between you and the people that use your product or service. This should consider all the relevant circumstances, including:

  • the type of organisation you are (for example, a public authority or someone in an employer-to-employee relationship);
  • the extent to which people rely on your service; and
  • your position in the market.

Your assessment for a power imbalance should form part of your overall assessment for demonstrating your “consent or pay” model’s compliance with data protection law. You should take a reasonable and proportionate approach to demonstrating how you’ve assessed your product or service against this factor.

You should consider the impact of introducing a “consent or pay” model on existing users of a product or service and whether there is a clear power imbalance with them, particularly considering any barriers to users switching and whether there are comparable alternative products or services they could use instead.

Where there is a clear power imbalance between you and the people that use your product or service, you are unlikely to be able to operate a “consent or pay” model without taking steps to address the power imbalance. This is because it is unlikely that people could provide freely given consent.

Where there is a clear power imbalance, you should take steps to address it and ensure people can freely give their consent. You could do this by offering an alternative way to access your service that doesn’t rely on the user consenting to personalised advertising or paying to avoid personalised advertising.

Power imbalance

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/uk-gdpr-guidance-and-resources/online-tracking/consent-or-pay/power-imbalance/

Happysack · 05/02/2025 16:18

MiddleParking · 05/02/2025 12:44

I clicked on ‘accessibility’ for the first time this morning while trying to figure out how to change these settings, and the page includes the following:

*You can do your bit by avoiding unnecessary punctuation (appalling punctuation will be jumped on in pedants' corner) especially in Talk thread titles.

Text speak (or txt spk) is obviously an abomination, but should also be avoided to help members who use screen readers (strangely, they don't find it very interesting to hear "asterisk, asterisk, asterisk" repeated ad nauseam in a monotone).

If you've got any accessibility suggestions, gripes or questions, please email [email protected] and we'll do our best to address them. (Alternatively, just start a thread called Am I Being Unreasonable to want to access Mumsnet?)*

Having a poor and contemptuous joke in every paragraph is the opposite of accessible, and I’ve no idea what would qualify as ‘unnecessary punctuation’. Honestly, what a way to run a website.

Edited

Although starting an AIBU on ‘AIBU to want to access Mumsnet without having to consent to tracking cookies even though users are the product’ seems like an excellent idea.

I can’t be arsed as I already had one foot out the door now it’s a cesspit of right wing mania and the exploitation of unpaid labour leading to CSA images being left up for hours.

But someone should follow MN’s own advice.

DJrocks · 05/02/2025 16:19

MsFogi · 05/02/2025 15:56

I'm sorry if I am being a complete idiot but where do I find cookie/privacy settings (I've looked on My Account and don't see it!!)?

right at the bottom of the page. As far as you can go where it shows contact us etc. it’s there.

N0sferatu · 05/02/2025 16:27

I predict a reverse ferret.

Doggymummar · 05/02/2025 16:31

NoBinturongsHereMate · 05/02/2025 14:40

At the very bottom of the page, 'Privacy settings' lets you change accept to reject.

The link is disabled on my tablet 🤔

BloominNora · 05/02/2025 16:32

@BeckyAMumsnet - Also, MN does not seem to have updated its privacy policy to reflect these new changes - not having an up to date privacy policy is also illegal under ICO rules.

The privacy policy currently states:

The first time you visit Mumsnet, you should see a pop-up where you can either reject or accept our recommended cookie settings or manage your individual preferences. SourcePoint is the tool we use to manage and record cookie consent.

You can reset your cookie and privacy settings at any time by clicking the ‘Privacy Settings’ link in the site footer.

Which is now no longer the case as the option to reject and continue to use the site has been removed.

The privacy policy has also not been updated since 2022 and under the regulations should be reviewed and updated manually:

Updates
Further updates will be noted here as and when they are made.
22 May 2018: deletion policy on Private Messages updated
8 May 2018: privacy policy updated
17 September 2018: cookie explanations updated to reflect new consent process
29 August 2019: updates to 'what data is stored and why'
12 September 2019: Alexa Skills privacy policy included
8 April 2020: Mumsnet Premium subscription privacy policy included
20 April 2020: updated throughout the policy to clarify how data is used across all Mumsnet
20 April 2020: updates to ‘where is your data stored’ section
24 January 2022: updates to Complying with the law
20 May 2022: updates to our Cookie Consent practice

Privacy Policy | Mumsnet

This policy explains the way that we collect, use and protect your data to support Mumsnet, Gransnet and other Mumsnet products (we will refer to this range of products under the name ‘Mumsnet’ throughout this policy), as well as your choices with rega...

https://www.mumsnet.com/i/privacy-policy

BloominNora · 05/02/2025 16:41

The privacy policy has also not been updated since 2022 and under the regulations should be reviewed and updated annually not manually - doh!

FrustratedandBemused · 05/02/2025 16:46

You’d think MN would get their own house in order before making the sort of changes that were likely to put them under some scrutiny.

AlertBrickBear · 05/02/2025 16:47

I’ve had a few irritating ads now and then, but mostly they’re not too bad. I mean there’s so many sites that are almost unusable because of them, but usually with Mumsnet I can just scroll by.

But, it’s a business, so there needs to be a way of monetizing it or it goes away, right? So, that’s ads or membership. There’s probably better ways of putting it than saying piggybacking though. That was bound to upset people. Bit of a strange choice. In the past, I’ve seen posts where Justine has used terms like this, and it didn’t go down well, so I’m not sure why it was chosen again.

having said that, though, for me, it’s not about the money, it’s more that in order to pay I would have to give more identifying details and I don’t really want to do that anymore. Mumsnet have had breaches in the past, but most websites have, and it just doesn’t seem like a great idea for me. So I’ll stick to the ads.

Oh, and the few times I’ve had an offensive ad, Mumsent have been responsive. And that’s really unusual I think. I can’t imagine other commercial websites giving a shit. So there’s that.

BeckyAMumsnet · 05/02/2025 16:49

We’ll get to as many of your questions as we can - please bear with us. For those asking about Premium subscriptions and the security of your payment details - all payments are processed securely through Stripe, a trusted payment provider used by millions of businesses worldwide. Your card details are encrypted, we cannot see them and they're never stored by us.

OP posts:
FrustratedandBemused · 05/02/2025 16:51

AlertBrickBear · 05/02/2025 16:47

I’ve had a few irritating ads now and then, but mostly they’re not too bad. I mean there’s so many sites that are almost unusable because of them, but usually with Mumsnet I can just scroll by.

But, it’s a business, so there needs to be a way of monetizing it or it goes away, right? So, that’s ads or membership. There’s probably better ways of putting it than saying piggybacking though. That was bound to upset people. Bit of a strange choice. In the past, I’ve seen posts where Justine has used terms like this, and it didn’t go down well, so I’m not sure why it was chosen again.

having said that, though, for me, it’s not about the money, it’s more that in order to pay I would have to give more identifying details and I don’t really want to do that anymore. Mumsnet have had breaches in the past, but most websites have, and it just doesn’t seem like a great idea for me. So I’ll stick to the ads.

Oh, and the few times I’ve had an offensive ad, Mumsent have been responsive. And that’s really unusual I think. I can’t imagine other commercial websites giving a shit. So there’s that.

Edited

Again, the ad issue is entirely different to the accepting cookies for them to harvest our data issue. Many of us are fine with the ads, but not the fact that we’re being told we’re not allowed to reject cookies.

Rachelreeveshairmustcostabomb · 05/02/2025 16:51

BecuaseIWantItThatWay · 05/02/2025 09:28

I do not currently, and will not, give consent for cookies to harvest my data. I also will not pay a subscription fee to access this website so looks like I won't be using Mumsnet in the future. Expect others will feel the same.

What a pity a more creative solution isn't being considered to be more commercially viable rather than charging your users/selling our data. Disappointing.

Yes exactly.

AlertBrickBear · 05/02/2025 16:51

BeckyAMumsnet · 05/02/2025 16:49

We’ll get to as many of your questions as we can - please bear with us. For those asking about Premium subscriptions and the security of your payment details - all payments are processed securely through Stripe, a trusted payment provider used by millions of businesses worldwide. Your card details are encrypted, we cannot see them and they're never stored by us.

For me, it’s not so much the payment details, but that I’d have to give my full name and other information to MN presumably? I worry about breaches for doing that. But maybe I’m wrong and I don’t need to?

Rachelreeveshairmustcostabomb · 05/02/2025 16:52

Goodbye Mumsnet

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 05/02/2025 16:54

AlbertCamusflage · 05/02/2025 15:37

I'm also finding that the privacy settings link at the foot of the page isn't working. As far as I recall, it is a requirement under the terms of the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations and/or UKGDPR that it should be easy for us to withdraw cookie consent at any time, so I imagine that MNHQ will quickly put this right <Paddington stare>.

Exactly proves my point that it’s always after the fact 🤯 absolutely shambles, you’d think a multi million pound business (as that’s what MN is) would get the basics right!

BeckyAMumsnet · 05/02/2025 16:57

AlertBrickBear · 05/02/2025 16:51

For me, it’s not so much the payment details, but that I’d have to give my full name and other information to MN presumably? I worry about breaches for doing that. But maybe I’m wrong and I don’t need to?

Your payment details in Stripe are not linked to your Mumsnet account (e.g. we don't know if a user has Premium just by looking at their MN account) and only a small number of staff at MNHQ have access to this for issuing refunds/cancellations, etc.

OP posts:
CarlaH · 05/02/2025 17:00

denhaag · 05/02/2025 14:46

I noticed that. It does work, just doesn't scroll to the bottom of the page as it used to. It's there though.

Thanks, actually it seems back to normal now.

delvan · 05/02/2025 17:01

As someone who is clueless, exactly what kind of information can be gleaned from our cookies. Thanks from an old timer.

Oblomov25 · 05/02/2025 17:08

Feel a bit sad by it all. Been here 20 years. Had problems with stripe at work today.

HotCrossBunplease · 05/02/2025 17:09

delvan · 05/02/2025 17:01

As someone who is clueless, exactly what kind of information can be gleaned from our cookies. Thanks from an old timer.

I asked Deep Seek to explain it for you @delvan :

Certainly! The process you're referring to is part of digital advertising and online tracking, where cookies play a key role in helping advertisers deliver targeted ads to users. Here's how it works:

1. What Cookies Track

When you visit a website, cookies (small text files) are stored on your device. These cookies can track various types of information, such as:

  • The pages you visit on the website.
  • How long you spend on each page.
  • Items you click on or add to a shopping cart.
  • Your location (based on your IP address).
  • Your browsing habits across different websites (if the same advertising network is used).

2. How This Data is Used for Advertising

Advertisers use the information collected by cookies to build a profile of your interests and behavior. This allows them to show you ads that are more relevant to you. For example:

  • If you frequently visit websites about fitness, you might see ads for gym memberships or sports equipment.
  • If you’ve been searching for flights, you might see ads for travel deals or hotels.
  • If you’ve looked at a specific product on an online store, you might see ads for that product (or similar ones) on other websites.

This practice is called behavioral advertising or targeted advertising.

3. The Role of Third-Party Cookies

While first-party cookies are created by the website you’re visiting and are generally used to improve your experience (e.g., remembering your login details), third-party cookies are created by other domains (like advertising networks) and are often used for tracking and advertising purposes. These third-party cookies can follow you across multiple websites, building a detailed profile of your online activity.

4. Privacy Concerns and Regulations

Because this type of tracking involves collecting personal data, it has raised privacy concerns. In the UK and EU, regulations like the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations (PECR) require websites to:

  • Inform you about the use of cookies.
  • Obtain your consent before using non-essential cookies (like those for advertising).
  • Allow you to opt out of tracking.

5. How to Manage Cookies

If you’re concerned about being tracked for advertising purposes, you can:

  • *Adjust your browser settings* to block third-party cookies.
  • Use *privacy-focused browsers* or tools (like DuckDuckGo or Brave) that limit tracking.
  • Opt out of targeted advertising through platforms like the *Your Online Choices website (in the EU) or the Digital Advertising Alliance* (in the US).
  • Regularly clear your cookies or use private/incognito browsing modes.

In summary, cookies are a key tool for advertisers to deliver targeted ads based on your online behavior. While this can make ads more relevant, it also raises privacy concerns, which is why regulations and tools exist to give you more control over how your data is used.

BloominNora · 05/02/2025 17:11

delvan · 05/02/2025 17:01

As someone who is clueless, exactly what kind of information can be gleaned from our cookies. Thanks from an old timer.

There are a few main types of cookies, but my understanding is they can be categorised as broadly two types - essential (which sites use to track usage and help to identify issues) and non-essential which are usually linked to advertising.

Websites don't have to seek permission to use essential cookies (but it is good practice to do so), but they do have to seek consent for non-essential cookies. If you accept non-essential cookies, advertising is more targeted. That is why, if you've accepted them you will see adverts which match things you have recently searched for or bought from other websites, or adverts for things you have mentioned in posts. If you do not accept them, you will still see the ads (unless you use an ad blocker) but they may not be as targeted.

Personally, this is not something that bothers me, and I generally accept cookies on established sites BUT it does bother some people and the right to not give consent or withdraw consent is clearly outlined in law (and legal application of data protection laws IS something that bothers me).

Consent or pay is a relatively new model, but it is difficult to implement in a way that properly complies with the law - and it is not clear at this point that MN have implemented correctly, with the appropriate assessments and safeguards in place.

This is why people are upset - and if enough people choose to leave because of it, MN need to remember that those same people have the 'right to be forgotten' which potentially means asking for the deletion of all of their posts.

If enough people did this the site would very quickly become swiss cheese and difficult to use

Sunshine1500 · 05/02/2025 17:11

BeckyAMumsnet · 05/02/2025 16:49

We’ll get to as many of your questions as we can - please bear with us. For those asking about Premium subscriptions and the security of your payment details - all payments are processed securely through Stripe, a trusted payment provider used by millions of businesses worldwide. Your card details are encrypted, we cannot see them and they're never stored by us.

I don’t think that’s what the majority of the posters were concerned about.

Sunshine1500 · 05/02/2025 17:13

so clearly your main concern was getting more subscribers and not addressing the insulting way you wrote the message to your users.

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