Unacceptable word.

[theheadgirl]

To MN HQ:
Many of us have contacted you, to express the opinion that the word "mong" should not be acceptable.
In the thread in question, the poster, who I am sure meant nothing derogatory, used the phrase "to mong out in front of the TV"
It has been suggested that this meant nothing more than to "veg" out.
However, this word derives from the word "mongol", which many years ago was the acceptable medical term to describe Down Syndrome. Thankfully the medical profession no longer use the word.
As the mother of a beautful, lively girl with Down Syndrome, (who never, ever "mongs" anywhere!) I find this a vile word. It is one that reminds me of the way that those with learning difficulties are sometimes labelled, are treated as 2nd class, and are denied any individuality. Ignorance of its history should not mean it can be continued to be used. Look at the picture of my girl on my profile and ask yourself - would you be happy to hear the word used?
If you feel that this word is unacceptable please add your name to this thread.

Blu, check out the first few posts on this thread

A lot of people seemed to think that asking for the post to be deleted was pedantry and censorship. The fact that it was also offensive to people with disabilities was apparently not a valid reason

Yep lapin - I def don't agree with words being banned. Keep it out in the open and challenge it I say.

No I don't want the word to be deleted. I want the post to be deleted.
And I want those who unknowingly use such a word, to realise the extreme offensiveness of its history.

I have never even heard of this word!!!

I agree that it is not an accetable form of address, but surely educating us about the unacceptable way the word is used is a better was to get your message across....ie....pointing it out to the poster that used in on the thread in question.

not everyone here will read this thread, and so they will be none the wiser......pointing out as and where you see it used would be more (IMHO) effective.

BUT..as I say, I never even heard of the term until I clicked on this thread, meaning, altho it is horrid and upsetting to you (and me in all honesty.....I would liken it to be as disgusting as the term 'spastic'!), most of us here may also be 'happily' naive and therefore not use it either, nor their kiddies.

Adding my name to this

there's another offensive word that does realte to my ds's thats becoming common again- and its so very sad. educate yes, but if people are offended delete.

well mn could delte the post and tell poster why. will that suit.
would save the sn community form haveing to battle even on here.

It's completely unacceptable.
I would delete the word in situ, and respond if anyone sees it again.
Your daughter is beautiful headgirl.

Why won't MNHQ delete it?

unacceptable word

MN have responded now here
This is what I wanted. And also to say my bit
Thank you Abby x

will add my name to this.
I reported the post in question as soon as I saw it, and the answer they sent back was "we relize that the use of the word is insensitive, however people are entitled to their opiinions"!

no i don't think the word should be banned, as every time it comes up people can be educated, but I think that following education, subsequent reporting and deletion of posts containing it should apply, in the same way it would be considered unacceptable to use racist terms.

I don't wish to upset or offend anyone, but am I the only one person who finds all the furore about the use of this word a bit of an overreaction?

I mean if the poster didn't use it offensively as an insult, then what is the problem?

Although I am fully aware of its misuse in the past; the term 'mong' is now used in the same way as 'veg out' which should be classed as being equally offensive by your standards I take it?

The usage of words changes over time - like 'gay' for example.

They even used the term 'having an epi' on Eastenders last night. Are you all writing in to them too because you are offended?

If MN need any more convincing, not only is it unacceptable because of the negative connotations that is has for a person with Down's, it also has racist overtones.

Dr Down who first identified the syndrome thought that people who had it were of 'lesser intelligence' since they were slipping away from the 'ideal' of the Caucasian race. he felt that white people were the cleverest, then Asian peoples and then black people (ghastly Isn;t it) He saw people with Downs syndrome and felt that this 'proved' his racist tosh, he called them Mongols as he felt (erroneously again!) that they all looked like Mongolian peoples.

So it is offensive to people with a learning disability and has its roots in the most awful racism

Washer - yes I am offended and upset by this. You are obviously untouched by how such a "label" can be offensive.
It is often considered cool and laid back to let others say whatever they wish without questioning how it affects others. I disagree. My problem was not so much with the OP. But if she did know the word's history and how it can upset, then Yes, overreacting or not, my problem is with her.

I haven't been on duty since Wednesday but, as I understand it, this was originally left because one of the team felt that the subsequent debate (as to why such a comment is unacceptable) would go a long way to educating the Mumsnet community. I think she felt that deleting the OP would render the thread nonsensical and, consequently, any subsequent educational element would be lost. That said, I think I remember a general email from either Justine or Carrie saying the post should go - and I agree. So just to make it perfectly clear - no, we really, really don't think it's an acceptable term, and any decision to leave the post was done with a good motive - but, in hindsight, maybe we should have deleted it when it was first reported.

well, I have no sympathy with people who beliigerently stake out their 'right' to sue language once they know it is derogatory, insulting and offensive.

It IS a bloody horrible term, and having had a quick skate through the 145 uses that Whizz searched, I am happy to say that in the majority of cases it is either promptly challenged - and apologised for, is used in " "s as reported speech of someone and the poster is shocked / critical of it's use, is twice used for a Chinese town (Mong Kok), and by two separate people as a typo for 'long'!

I am not at allsurprised that parents of children with DS are outraged by any acceptance of causual use of this word, and i will certainly challenge it where I find it.

Washer, I wouldn't use epi fit, no. Used to say something similar until someone pointed it out and I felt awful, apologised and never would again.

It's not 'just a word'. Words have immense power, and not only influence behaviour but have a shared, reinforcing effect where people think that if someone else uses it then it must be OK.

Martian , I agree. Anything with a connotation which places one person above another for any reason , isn't an over reaction.
People who think it is , maybe haven't been in a position where the words have been used.
Words are very powerful.
(Dr. Down sounds horrifyingly like ... whispering...Steiner and his race theory.)

I didn't see the the thread or post in question so I suppose I shouldn't comment at all.

As I said I don't wish to offend anyone. I do not use the term myself but have always heard it in general usage (and not as an insult or label).

I'm just trying to work out what is acceptable; so it IS ok to say 'veg out' then? Does that not come from the term 'vegetable' used for someone on life support machines? Why is that not offensive?

Do people who have epilepsy dislike the use of the term 'having an epi'?

washer - I'm presuming you've never seen a loved one have a seizure.

Washersaurus it's pretty simple - if you don't want to upset or offend anyone, then don't use it

I would think the term ' a vegetable' for someone on life support, is no longer acceptable.

Washersaurus, it's obvious that sometimes words or phrases are used by people who genuinely did not realise their origins/connotations or whatever. Often people apologise and that's the end of it
Speaking personally, I found it upsetting that when the offensiveness of the term was pointed out, quite a few people told the poster to stop being PC, pedantic, oversensitive etc
That's why there is a furore this time IMO