Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

"boomer" thread

1000 replies

Maireas · 28/08/2023 20:29

You've hidden this evening's offensive, ageist thread, stereotyping "boomers". Will this be deleted? Can we have a robust response to ageism on MN?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
IClaudine · 29/08/2023 16:38

It’s the cycle of life.

True, and that cycle means young people will despise you when you are older, unless we do more to combat ageism.

OMGitsnotgood · 29/08/2023 16:40

* 'But not every Boomer generation person campaigned for those things did they?* '

'Boomers - as a cohort - have been exceptionally greedy and selfish. Have made life more impoverished for future generations than needed to be the case: other policy choices for completely foreseen problems were available.'

Ah so it's not ok to lump all boomers together when you are talking about the good stuff, only when it suits the ageist arguments?

Jamtartforme · 29/08/2023 16:40

TheLongGloriesOfTheWinterMoon · 29/08/2023 16:38

Not all young people are poor either, are they?

Of course not. But we have to talk in generalisations, you can’t individually discuss some 80 million people.

sunglassesonthetable · 29/08/2023 16:40

True, and that cycle means young people will despise you when you are older, unless we do more to combat ageism.

But I don't feel 'despised' !

There's lots of casual ageism especially in language but i don't feel " despised "!

I think that's extreme.

IClaudine · 29/08/2023 16:42

I have seen a few posts by Jamtartforme that demonstrate she (or he) really does not like older people.

IsadoraQuagmire · 29/08/2023 16:47

WarOnTheSlugs · 29/08/2023 14:55

@WarOnTheSlugs has been inundating this thread with post after post when a separate thread to discuss inter generational wealth disparity would be a far more appropriate home for this.

Just a few posts in, the OP posted:

"It's so offensive, to be stereotyped as greedy, stupid, selfish women, deliberately ruining society for the next generation, basking in our undeserved riches. Unacceptable."

My posts have been to explain why many younger people feel such resentment towards the Boomer generation, as a whole. The economic facts are undeniable. Social attitudes and the general trend for dismissiveness of younger people's concerns (well demonstrated in many posts here!) are also well-documented. These things are not "prejudices", they are established factual phenomena.

Boomers - as a cohort - have been exceptionally greedy and selfish. Have made life more impoverished for future generations than needed to be the case: other policy choices for completely foreseen problems were available. They do tend to be disparaging to younger people, have a total inability/ refusal to understand the struggles they face which are objectively proven to be much more difficult and give them fewer opportunities to become successful, for home ownership, for social mobility, for affluent retirements, for working abroad etc... than they had themselves. Younger people are faced with a much higher cost of living relative to salaries, a much higher tax burden, a much more uncertain future, crumbling infrastructure, failing services, underfunded education, all for far more tax than Boomers paid.

This is fact.

And many here seem to be unwilling to accept that as a generation, you are responsible for the situation you leave behind for your children. The Government of the day can only operate within the possibilities that global economics/ geopolitics dictates at the time however, things in the UK are much worse for current adults and likely those who are children now when they become adults, as a direct result of choices that this cohort made. Largely for their own benefit, when it was crystal clear at the time that not acting on these issues when it should have been done would impoverish their children and grandchildren.

That is why there is such a high level of intergenerational inequality in the UK. It's a problem in many advanced economies because economic conditions globally are less favourable now, yet many countries who also foresaw this acted upon it: their Boomer generations did something to ensure a decent future for children and grandchildren, as much as one can. They invested in infrastructure and power generation and education and a sustainable healthcare model and social care model and a fair tax system operated on a household basis without the distortions we have and decent childcare systems and pension systems that aren't ponzi schemes and paid taxes commensurate to what their own costs to the state would be over their lifetimes.

The refusal to accept that Boomers did not do enough - anywhere near enough - to ensure decent living standards for those following behind, and the self-righteous blaming of those who are younger for not being able to fix all of the foreseeable and foreseen problems they allowed to come to fruition, is the reason for resentment.

Someone upthread stated that more older people vote. I countered that younger people have nobody to vote for because no political party is proposing policies that will help younger people (particularly adults in their late 30s/ 40s who have been hammered the worst: graduating in the global financial crisis, no real-terms pay growth whatsoever during their working lives, then Covid, Brexit, mortgage hikes, increased taxes...).

Perhaps if older people genuinely DO care about the prospects of their children and grandchildren, they would be pressuring politicians to do something to help the Millenial cohort that have been royally stitched up? To introduce policies to help them? Are any of you who proclaim how it's not your fault and you wanted a better life for future generations doing anything to campaign for policies to help us?

I'm in my 20s and I don't know anyone who thinks like you. I'm glad to say I, and all my friends of a similar age, respect people older than ourselves.
You sound extremely bitter and jealous.

sunglassesonthetable · 29/08/2023 16:50

I have seen a few posts by Jamtartforme that demonstrate she really does not like older people.

I'm not really talking about randoms on here. That's bye the bye. There's lots of extremes on MN.

But generally I don't think younger people, despise older people.

I think there's lots of lazy, ageist language though. Like Boomer being used in a derogatory way.

Jamtartforme · 29/08/2023 16:51

IClaudine · 29/08/2023 16:38

It’s the cycle of life.

True, and that cycle means young people will despise you when you are older, unless we do more to combat ageism.

What are we amassing now that will mean they will despise us? I don’t actually think younger people ‘despise’ older people, they’re frustrated at the lack of understanding and the endless Tory voting.

To put things in context, I have spent every single year of my adult life under the Tory government, it has started with austerity and is still basically in austerity. My wages go no further than they did when I left school despite being modestly higher. I have had Brexit (primarily voted for by older people, middle aged and beyond). I’ve had Covid, the entire country grinding to a standstill and being under house arrest while the economy crashes, primarily to protect the lives of older people (the main victims of covid). Recent COL rises due to the these events among others means I am now absolutely broke, I go to sleep every night feeling sick and thinking about my bills. Our mortgage has gone up by £600 a month since last year.

Yet if you dare to mention any of this (with the disclaimer that of course NOT ALL older people voted for Brexit/Tories, but most did), you are absolutely slaughtered for ageism, ungratefulness, are told you should work harder, accused of hating elderly people and wanting them in workhouses. Told we should be happy pensioners are receiving yet more money the country cannot afford when most of us have had no real terms wage increase for over a decade.

All we want is a bit of understanding and to stop being gaslighted that we don’t have it bad compared to the past, that we should in fact be grateful, that there’s no connection between the Tory government we have and the fact most older (and some younger) people continually vote for them.

I don’t think that’s too much to ask, nor is it ageism.

CaptainMyCaptain · 29/08/2023 16:51

Jamtartforme · 29/08/2023 16:35

But every generation does that don’t they? I’m a millennial and my generation seems to be leading the charge with climate change and awareness of neurodiversity. I don’t think that means subsequent generations are never entitled to criticise us, or discuss pensions. I don’t expect profuse thanks either. It’s the cycle of life, I hope the world is a better place for my kids and grandkids than it was for me. Planting trees you’ll never sit under and all that.

I have never said anything against any of the younger cohorts.

You are not leading the charge with climate change by the way. I joined Friends of the Earth in 1972, Greenpeace has been campaigning since 1971 and there has been some progress in some areas since then although big business still holds the power. Ozone depleting substances have been significantly reduced (eg CFCs in aerosols and fridges), advances have been made in recycling dangerous substance and everyday products. Still a long, long way to go obviously but don't think you invented environmental awareness people have been beavering away at it for donkey's years.

Planting trees has been a thing for a long time too. There was a slogan 'Plant a tree '73' and I did take direct action about the destruction of existing trees but I'm not going into that now.

Women my age lost out on 6 years of State Pension that they expected to get when they started work. Many of those did not have a private pension either as it was not expected then in many careers. They will also be working into their 70s to survive. I realise pension age was raised to equalise men and women's pensions and because life expectation increased but it seems that younger generations raised on junk food are succumbing to bowel cancer earlier so this might not continue. (No references for this my information is from hospital sources).

Maybe some of my generation (free love etc.) thought they had invented ex but that wasn't true either.

CaptainMyCaptain · 29/08/2023 16:52

invented sex

TheLongGloriesOfTheWinterMoon · 29/08/2023 16:52

Jamtartforme · 29/08/2023 16:40

Of course not. But we have to talk in generalisations, you can’t individually discuss some 80 million people.

It's really not complicated.

You can say things like "some", or "a minority" or even "a majority". Or things like "in the news, it was said that..." Or "my own mother" Etc.

You know, things that are empirically and objectively correct, rather than tired stereotypical generalisations.

justasking111 · 29/08/2023 16:54

Some posters have been drinking the KOOL AID while the likes of Soros, Gates, Bezos have bought up millions of acres of farmland and then instructed us to eat plant food, drink almond milk and embrace Palm oil.

Give over we're not falling for that or most other nudges. I'll admit at the beginning the pandemic one did catch me on the hop.

It's fine and right to be idealistic whether young or old but for god sake use a bit of critical thinking.

Jamtartforme · 29/08/2023 16:55

TheLongGloriesOfTheWinterMoon · 29/08/2023 16:52

It's really not complicated.

You can say things like "some", or "a minority" or even "a majority". Or things like "in the news, it was said that..." Or "my own mother" Etc.

You know, things that are empirically and objectively correct, rather than tired stereotypical generalisations.

I have.

WarOnTheSlugs · 29/08/2023 17:01

Maireas · 29/08/2023 14:57

@WarOnTheSlugs : how do you know what any of us are doing, politically and socially?
Something of an assumption that none of us are engaged and campaigning.

I haven't said you aren't. But more older people need to support the policies that younger people need in order to have decent life chances, for such policies to be enacted.

WarOnTheSlugs · 29/08/2023 17:02

You do have a bee in your bonnet. It's Millennial, by the way.

Sorry for my typo. If that's your biggest take from this, I don't know what to say.

sunglassesonthetable · 29/08/2023 17:02

Yet if you dare to mention any of this (with the disclaimer that of course NOT ALL older people voted for Brexit/Tories, but most did),

Sorry but that's shite. And this is a derail.

MORE older people than younger voted for Brexit but not MOST older people.

45-54 56%
55-64 57%
65 + 60%

Voted for Brexit

That is more but def not MOST.

Maireas · 29/08/2023 17:04

WarOnTheSlugs · 29/08/2023 17:01

I haven't said you aren't. But more older people need to support the policies that younger people need in order to have decent life chances, for such policies to be enacted.

How do you know they're not? How do measure the engagement and campaigning of a certain demographic?
You really can't generalise like this. It does not hold validity.

OP posts:
WarOnTheSlugs · 29/08/2023 17:04

Please just give it a rest. This is not a debate thread on this point. You’ve made your point over a dozen times now.

It is a debate on exactly this point, since many posters including the OP stated that they don't understand the problem or why there is anger from younger generations. Hence some of us trying to explain the reasons.

"Give it a rest" is a strange comment to make on a forum specifically designed for discussing things.

IClaudine · 29/08/2023 17:04

jamtartforme has it ever occurred to you to lay some of the blame at the door of your own generation? Because so many of you don't bother to vote.

Look, I don't deny that you have it tough, really tough. Life was tough for me when I was your age too, but in a different way.

The young have been fucked over, it is true. But blaming one single cohort of society is simplistic. It is also what the Tories want you to do. It is a tactic as old as time. Same with immigration. Read The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists and you will see how little has changed in terms of those in power getting us to turn on each other.

I hope things get easier for you. I really do.

Maireas · 29/08/2023 17:05

Excuse me, @WarOnTheSlugs - I said no such thing.
My objection is the stereotyping which has lead to offensive ageist slurs.

OP posts:
sunglassesonthetable · 29/08/2023 17:06

The young have been fucked over, it is true. But blaming one single cohort of society is simplistic.

It's ridiculous.

WarOnTheSlugs · 29/08/2023 17:07

jeffgoldblum · 29/08/2023 15:08

May I enquire who these boomers are?
I'm totally confused!
What age are the people you are talking about @WarOnTheSlugs ?

Baby boomers are now 57-77 years old, I believe. The ones towards the latter end of that spectrum seem to be the worst in terms of more of them displaying the entitled and unpleasant attitudes and wilful ignorance of the situation I've described in my experience - but of course that is anecdotal.

vodkaredbullgirl · 29/08/2023 17:09

Never voted Tories or Labour in my life, nor did I vote for Brexit and I'm in my 50s.

IClaudine · 29/08/2023 17:09

I’ve had Covid, the entire country grinding to a standstill and being under house arrest while the economy crashes, primarily to protect the lives of older people (the main victims of covid)

This btw is an example of why I think Jamtartforme simply doesn't like old people and allows that to cloud their thinking.

Maireas · 29/08/2023 17:11

of course that is anecdotal
Indeed.

OP posts:
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread