Should MN maybe post a thread daily mentioning high profile threads which have turned out to be trolls?

[HeartsAndClubs]

I know that in theory mn doesn’t want to talk about which threads have been troll threads, especially when they’ve been there a while. But the reality is that members do talk about these threads,because people post asking what happened to the poster etc. But then MN remove the thread for being a TAAT because it’s “against guidelines” which then means that because those who haven’t seen it haven’t seen it they post another thread which is then deleted for being a TAAT and so it continues.

So surely it would be better to either post a thread talking about which high profile (i.e. the funeral thread to name one) threads have been removed, and people can go there before posting a “what happened to/I’m worried about/hope x is ok” type thread. You could, if you didn’t want discussion of the particular trolls, remove commenting.

Thing is there will always be trolls, and when they’re outed they will always be discussed. Especially in the case of trolls who have been particularly emotive ones where users may personally have become invested due to their own circumstances.

'. on the other hand, though, perhaps it will open the eyes of some of those posters who tend to believe that everything posted here is the truth?'

Tbf there are trolls and weird fuckers all over the Internet. I've no idea why people would expect anything less on Mumsnet. If people need guides, tips and helpful reminders that half of what you read online is bollocks then they should stick to the crossword in Woman's Own.

While we're discussing trolls, would it be possible to put a message on threads asking about children's toilet habits/daughters starting their periods, especially the ones that start "Man/Dad here"? I'm thinking of something to the effect that posters should be aware that these topics are frequently posted by Herbert and his hairy-handed chums and that any responses may be used as fodder for their solitary activities. It might stop people rushing to share their children's intimate secrets with thousands of strangers on the internet. If MNHQ can't do that is OK for regular posters to put such a message on a thread without the threat of being deleted?

'While we're discussing trolls, would it be possible to put a message on threads asking about children's toilet habits/daughters starting their periods'

Oh fgs it's a parenting forum these topics are frequent issues with kids. Just report them if you think its dodgy 🙄

Perhaps you think there should be disclaimers on bereavement threads 'potential troll alert' perhaps? That would be nice wouldn't it for genuinely bereaved folk.

Completely agree, Linguist. Most long-running threads are about more than purely the specific question at hand. They tend to be about the differences in posters’ views and perspectives, and that is often fascinating. I find it very frustrating when a thread is pulled because the op is a troll when a good discussion/debate has got established.

Obviously, posts that are emotionally manipulative about very sensitive subjects should go if started by a troll, but otherwise I find it pointless and annoying.

@lazylinguist

I've never really understood why people get so het up about troll threads (except the ones on very serious or upsetting topics, which are surely pretty infrequent). Surely we largely post on threads as if they can be taken at face value, while being aware that any thread might be pure fiction. If a thread I've posted on turns out to be fake , I'm not fussed tbh!

Where does that end?

People aren’t engaging in a nudge, nudge, wink wink we know it is made up way. They are engaging because they think it is true and should be believed. And they read other things that aren’t true and believe them. Before long they are sucked into conversations and threads entirely populated by people who aren’t thinking critically and believing every thing they are told.

Perhaps you think there should be disclaimers on bereavement threads 'potential troll alert' perhaps? That would be nice wouldn't it for genuinely bereaved folk.

I think that's a good idea actually. Exactly to stop bereaved folk being caught out by and overly-emotionally invested in some of the horrible troll threads that get posted there.

@Merrilee

Haha no way will mn ever want to admit how many are trolls or possible trolls. Imagine the responses of the long ongoing sagas so many fell for, like Soft play zilla, Korean grandma, etc etc

This. And the obvious astroturfers. MN encourages it as it all = traffic.

I now assume any complicated family/friendship scenario is made up even though I replied to one yesterday

I reply to just about everything with 'possible troll' in the back of my mind, or at the very least 'probable exaggeration', especially when threads have a part 1/2/3 etc.

That doesn't mean the advice I give isn't genuine, it just means I'm not that bothered when the thread gets pulled because I've come to expect it now. Especially as there are a ridiculous amount of threads deleted just because the OP doesn't want it up anymore.

Public forums are not a 'safe space', in fact no internet forums are, and it worries me how many adults cannot understand that. Those same adults will have children using the internet and that's why it worries me.

Actually I think that an awful lot of threads on the bereavement topic are trolls. In fact I remember reading a poster on the bereavement forum that they were so fed up of offering support to posters who largely turn out to be trolls.

As for MN getting it wrong, I think that it happens far more often that threads are left to stand which are entirely fictitious rather than threads wrongly being deleted.

But I do think that there are some posters responsible for the fact that there are so many emotive troll posts on MN. With “checking in/how are you today/I’m worried about you,” and the list goes on, posts, thus confirming that the troll has captured the thoughts of the gullible.

From my perspective, I regularly post on what I believe to be troll threads, and then report them behind the scenes. That way I can see if they’ve been removed or not, and 9 times out of 10 they are.

But I do think that there are some posters responsible for the fact that there are so many emotive troll posts on MN. With “checking in/how are you today/I’m worried about you,” and the list goes on, posts, thus confirming that the troll has captured the thoughts of the gullible.

Yes, even on other less 'obvious' threads you get the extreme overreactions like "A&E NOW!!!!" and all the "UPDATE PLEASE OP!!!"

It must be very exciting for them to trigger such strangely over the top attention.

Very good point. It would highlight the troll thread count each day.

I've clicked on 3 alone this morning 😒

Public forums are not a 'safe space', in fact no internet forums are, and it worries me how many adults cannot understand that. Those same adults will have children using the internet and that's why it worries me.

Absolutely @WorraLiberty. It really worries me how naive and gullible some posters. (And not just on Mumsnet)

I do think leaving the title on deleted threads would be useful (if the title is not offensive). It would help the more naive posters to wise-up.
I now take the view that many bereavement, hospital, child seriously ill, and toilet threads are likely to be trolls. Which is very sad.
I remember a thread from a few years back about a child in GOSH went on for many days and numerous threads. Many people reporting early on (including myself) and were dismissed by MNHQ. In the end it was deleted and a TAAT was permitted for a few days to enable closure for all the posters who had been sucked-in.
I think it is important trolls from long-running threads are more clearly exposed to help posters learn the lesson of caution.

It really worries me how naive and gullible some posters...

Indeed.

Sooo many people will just believe anything because it is written down and then go parrotting it about all over the place without even doing the most basic fact checking to see if it bears any relation to reality.

Also there are a number of MNetters who believe someone is telling the truth, just because MNHQ have posted to say "We have no reason to believe this poster is a troll".

That's completely different to "We know this poster is telling the truth".

MNHQ can't possibly know whether someone is telling the truth or not (and they don't claim to). All it takes is a bit of thinking about.

All it takes is a bit of thinking about.

Which is exactly where it falls down!

If you're interested in a thread, click that you want to "watch" it. It'll appear in your Threads I'm Watching list, you don't need to post to placemark etc, and you'll see the deletion message if it gets zapped.

Then you won't need threads asking "what happened to X thread? ".

Problem solved and fewer PMK posts filling up threads

I agree it'd end up being a Hall of Fame for trolls, terrible idea op, sorry!

Oh I don’t place mark, I post a meaningful response. Then I trot off and report.

I remember a thread from a few years back about a child in GOSH went on for many days and numerous threads. Many people reporting early on (including myself) and were dismissed by MNHQ. In the end it was deleted and a TAAT was permitted for a few days to enable closure for all the posters who had been sucked-in. was that Oliver’s army? TBH I blame the contributors on that thread as much as the troll who posted it. How anyone could believe that a mother (who was a first time poster,) would be posting on mn while in the ambulance on the way to the hospital and then telling her child all about the army of people routing for him is beyond me.

And everyone was clammering to be seen on that thread “checking in for duty,” and so on. Bloody ridiculous.

And everyone was clammering to be seen on that thread “checking in for duty,” and so on. Bloody ridiculous.

Yes, quite.

Not quite such an emotive subject but there is a discussion today about trolls who claim to have a relationship with celebrities (and what happens re libel etc). You can guarantee that the minute there is any whiff of a celebrity in a post (have you met one, who is the rudest etc etc) more than 50% of the posts will just be desperately trying to guess who it is.

These are real people with families FFS. Assuming that they may either be on MN themselves or know someone who is on MN who might bring it to their attention, why do posters think it is acceptable to be writing "Ooooh - I bet it is X" or "I've heard that Y has form for this".

I think it was the Oliver’s Army incident, it was infuriating. The child was wearing Christmas PJs in the summer, the hospital bed was obviously not in the UK.
You’re right the posters on the thread were revelling in their support and ‘being seen’. It often fells like a specific type of Munchausens they way these posts attract the mawkish.

As for MN getting it wrong, I think that it happens far more often that threads are left to stand which are entirely fictitious rather than threads wrongly being deleted.

I agree. They often fall back on the “posting history” response, when a post is clearly utter bollocks.

It happens too often and troll threads can be left for days or weeks before being taken down. Meanwhile anyone who raises even a slight concern on the thread is apparently banned without even getting an email to advise them why. Apparently troll hunting is far worse to MN than the actual trolling itself.

I do agree.

I think the whole 'giving the poster the benefit of the doubt' which is the strategy that MNHQ tend to employ, is clearly redundant these days. It's so patently obvious when posters are trolling - even if they have a long posting history.

There are scores of red flags, consistent themes, well-worn 'stories' etc that are discussed on multiple sites away from Mumsnet - all exposing the trolls. And yet MNHQ persist in saying there's no evidence that there is trolling afoot.

I get that MNHQ can't prove definitively that a poster is a troll, so they give said poster the benefit of the doubt. In the meantime, that poster is trolling left, right and centre over Mumsnet.

I think it's time to delete sooner rather than later, and stop all this 'benefit of the doubt' approach.

I don't understand the troll thing (on mn specifically). And I really don't understand why people suspect so many users of being trolls. I do appreciate I'm probably being naive here.

My first posting on mn (under a different username) had loads of people asking if I was trolling. No, it was about my PFB and I was a FTM. It was a daft question, but I really didn't know. It was quite upsetting and I didn't come back for a long time.

I also don't understand the fury around 'dripfeeds'!

How many strikes and “you’re out” for troll hunting?