MNHQ We Have a Problem

[DioneTheDiabolist]

In the past week, we have had the NSPCC pull out of a Web chat about their Speak Out Stay Safe (teaching children how to stay safe from abuse and what to do if they have any concerns) and PANTS (teaching parents how to talk to young children about staying safe from sexual abuse in an age appropriate way) programmes.

We have also had Stella Creasey MP pull out of a Web chat about making misogyny a hate crime.

As I am interested and invested in the safety and wellbeing of women and children, I am disappointed that these Web chats did not take place, seemingly because the views of the NSPCC and Stella Creasey regarding Trans issues do not align with some GC MNetters.

I want to ask MNHQ, what are you doing/can be done to prevent this from happening again? Plenty of women and parents here would like to hear what they have to say about keeping our children safe and legislation being drafted to protect women.

OP.
Which questions that you asked were derailed by people asking questions that you didn't approve of?

Traffic is good for business, you nitwit! Doesn't matter if the visitors are nodding along sagely or lollygagging at the vile women daring to type words. It's still traffic figures for advertisers.

YY. Which is why media outlets engage in outrageous "clickbait". To draw traffic even if it creates negative publicity.

Glad you reposted that Fermats! Was your post I referenced earlier and was going to try to find.

And when they become SO well known for that that people flock here from Twitter specifically to "gawp" at the MN transphobes..

That's entirely your assumption.

I would agree there is a significant problem here. When one side of a discussion bullies and dominates, and attempts to stifle others views, then congratulate themselves on their cleverness, whilst going all wide eyed and pretending that wasn't their intent, they are just so right, then it's always going to be a problem and of course organisations or people are not going to take discussions on here.

I don't know what the mods can do about it though, other than systematically ban and not provide the platform. It's hugely difficult because this is a site that permits free speech, robust discussions, but on this there is no discussion, robust or otherwise.

I tend to take the view of not my circus, not my monkeys, but I do think this is a tough one for the mods and it is indeed a significant problem, one that everyone is aware of, inc the media.

Thanks lang, will read with interest

When one side of a discussion bullies and dominates, and attempts to stifle others views, then congratulate themselves on their cleverness, whilst going all wide eyed and pretending that wasn't their intent, they are just so right, then it's always going to be a problem and of course organisations or people are not going to take discussions on here.

But isn't anyone free to start a thread on the forum wherever they want?

And others are free to post on it in support or otherwise?

Are you saying that only people on one side are allowed to post?

MN is one of the few female dominated forums that allows discussion around the trans issue.

The NSPCC is a charity, they rely on the public to keep them going with donations, and as such they should be answerable to the public, not expect to come to us with their own agenda and evade questions we think are relevant. We're paying their wages and we're expecting their organisation to do the things in it's mission statement, in this case safeguarding children. We don't have to humbly accept their agenda, we have every right to ask difficult questions. The revelations about the failures in safeguarding within some big charities recently make this even more important. We should be asking questions of these charities, and they should bite the bullet and reply to them if they want people to carry on giving.

Similarly, Mumsnet is a business, why does that mean we have to be careful around them? If we're not their customers, what are we? The product that they are supplying to the advertisers? I don't really understand why we owe it to either of these groups to only voice certain opinions. I think this just a roundabout way of saying you don't agree, or don't want to hear about those opinions. I'd also question whether wanting to protect female only spaces is 'fringe politics', particularly where girls are concerned.

Are you saying that only people on one side are allowed to post

It's not it's not allowed, it's simoly pointless. There is no balanced intelligent discussion. It's simply easier to stay away from it. There has been numerous threads on this.

The thing is, it's self defeating. Because the gc crowd pretty much only influence each other, no one else now. Folks don't even click on the threads any more. Organisations won't enter discussions.

It's game over.

Well said.

To Pywife, obvs.

Are you saying that only people on one side are allowed to post?

That certainly seems to be what some people on this thread think.

If the NSPCC are so afraid of questions about their position there's probably not a lot to be done. Except to donate to more open and honest charities in future.

It's game over

So why is it not so easy to show those with questions about safeguarding the guidance that protects their children?

If this is such an easy win, and the people asking questions are all wrong, I can't see why someone do any just go in once and show us how it all works and how girls specifically will not lose out.

It is odd that so many who don't seem to have questions are wanting to stop those that do from asking them.

The NSPCC thread had no questions until the wrong questions were asked, so are you saying you have none in which case, what is the problem exactly?

Even in the statement, if they didn't want to do the FB chat.

The feminism boards are generally the only place you are guaranteed to find real intelligence on MN.

It's interesting that you say that continuallychargingmyphone. Bluntness100 has very eloquently explained what this feels like to those on the outside of your group.

Maybe one possible solution is to post a chat notification in FWR and another on the main boards.

BTW, you are wrong continuallychargingmyphone. There is real intelligence throughout MN. It's a pity you don't see it.

Dione what would you say to a teenage girl who had just been told she had to shower after PE with a transgirl with an intact penis?

I don't for a moment doubt that being trans is terribly hard and opens one up to genuine transphobic bullying in schools. We (NSPCC and parents) need to support children who are trans or are wondering if they might be (where support should include time and space to explore feelings of confusion and dysphoria, not a railroading approach towards instant affirmation). But we also need to think about the feelings and rights of girls to single sex spaces.

If the NSPCC said "The answer to this is gender-neutral third spaces for those who need them - let's start a campaign to get funding for these in all schools" I'd be behind them all the way. But I'm not going to get behind saying to teenage girls "your feelings, need for privacy and dignity and safety don't matter."

But I'm not going to get behind saying to teenage girls "your feelings, need for privacy and dignity and safety don't matter."

Me neither. And I'm not going to stand aside and shut up while other people who agree with that let it happen either.

So Yes We Do Have a Problem. Not MN, society.

I don’t see it dione

Politics and in the news are rarely posted on. It’s cheeky fuckery, toilet trolls and huns.

I’m not in that group by the way.

What were the questions you had that were railroaded though OP?

bluntness and dionne please don’t assume FWR is anti trans. I want trans people to be able to live without discrimination or abuse. At the same time I think the movement has been hijacked by some rather disturbing actors and I have a number of concerns. Namely:

The safeguarding weakening mentioned above

Self ID allowing any man (note: not transwomen, any man) into women’s spaces.

Reinforcement of strict gender stereotypes - weren’t we trying to break all that down?

Massive increase in girls presenting with ROGD (rapid onset dysphoria) which may be due to social factors - a hypersexualised society is not a great place to be a teen girl. We need to look at WHY so many kids are unhappy.

Homophobia - most kids who question their gender just end up OK with it and same sex attracted. Telling a girl who will likely just end up as a lesbian that she’s actually a straight boy smacks of conversion therapy to me.

A shift in the standard of care from a medical perspective. Previously watch and wait supportively was he standard. Now we are seeing clinics in the USA where non medics are able to prescribe powerful puberty blockers and cross sex hormones just via a quick consult. That’s horrific.

Use of puberty blockers in a non licenced, non investigated field. These are powerful drugs, which have lifelong, irreversible effects on multiple body systems including the brain (an IQ loss of about 8 points), joints, bones etc. I see no medical justification to do this to healthy children.

Affirmative treatment - this sets minors on the path which is irreversible - once they’re in blockers and hormone territory it’s extremely hard if not impossible to have any exit. As 80% of kids who question their gender end up reconciled with it I cannot see any justification for affirmative treatment

Teaching of incorrect information in schools and online - kids are being told they can change sex. They can’t. They’re being told blockers are a harmless pause button. They are not (even the BBC has this on heir website.)

So as you can see I have multiple concerns over this issue. You are welcome to check my posting history - I do not bully, or shout, or intimidate anyone. I am however extremely Concerned that there are multiple, non benign interests hijacking the concept of trans rights. I am happy to discuss any of the points above with anyone in a calm and rational manner.