Since WBY was such a huge success, how about turning our collective attention to DV?

[lissieloo]

Quash a few myths, challenge a few preconceptions?

WBY was, and is, awesome. I really think we could do the same for domestic violence. There seem to be an awful lot of posters in, or who have survived an abusive relationship. Reality's "Now Look Here" is brilliant, and we could incorporate that. I'm sure that the bloggers would get behind it too.

Whaddya think?

[FeegleFion]

Fairy you're actually coming across in quite an overtly assertive/ bordering on aggressive manner, whenever anyone either slightly wanders from your accepted train of thought and direction that you want this thread to take or attempts to instigate any type of suggestion/ question on how we might want to consider including here.

Please just take a step back and look at this as a group of mostly women probably all women who would like to contribute to something extremely worthwhile.

Tee thanks, you were right and I appreciate you taking the time to give me a mild tongue lashing

[Tee2072]

The issue is a human one.

[FeegleFion]

I agree Tee.

The fact is that I will give my very best to anyone who wishes to engage in support. I would not be the person I profess to be if I was selective in providing a service.

[RonaldMcDonald]

Tee your points are really well made and I have taken them on board. As the thread has developed I see that my original suggestions and ideas are not where this proposed campaign has headed.

kickass I think that your point about educating men regarding women and educating future generations of men is a vital

[FeegleFion]

It's important to point out that for such a thread to exist, this disagreeing in it's infancy is extremely important.

We should feel safe to throw suggestions out or to ask questions etc. to ensure anyone who wishes to, can contribute to the moulding of this without fear of rejection or flaming.

We are here to empower one another. That's what we are trying to begin, is it not? A safe, non-judgemental, supportive thread? dare I say sisterhood?

[Tee2072]

Can we not say sisterhood? I hate that!

Shall we report the thread to HQ and make sure we have their support?

[FairyFi]

I am short of time sorry .. .I was asking if this is a gender issue, which has been taken as me taking slight at Tee previous posting about this being abuser/survivor issue regardless of gender.

I wasn't.. I was wanting to establish what the ground rules are for this thread, and then I see this is what you have said

Is the issue a male one? I am wondering after your post Tee?

as DV is vastly primarily male perpetrated my comment
Where did I say it was a male one? I said just the opposite!! Tee comment.

no mild tongue lashings should be approved. I am stating, and I have disagreed with certain things. but I have not been sarcastic I have stuck to the point, and I have tried very hard to work out the direction on here and challenge some myths.

[FairyFi]

I wasn't in any way 'having a go' or being aggressive atall... I asked the question are we talking a male issue here, as yes, I stand by my point that it is

[FeegleFion]

I like sisterhood Makes me feel like a hippy somehow

I shall refrain, as I do not wish to offend

[Tee2072]

It is only a male issue if you're concerned about the abuser, assuming that most abusers are male.

I am concerned for the women and children who can't or don't know how to leave the abuse. And children are male or female.

[betterthanever]

Tee it is years since I was with my abuse exp and still struggle with knowing what to do in some circumstances.
I think there are also many myths around the effects on DC and how the abuser would not abuse them away from the mother so contact with DC continues.
The pressures that those affected by abuse are under to continue communciation with an abuser `for thier DCs best interest'.
I can't remember who posted it but I too hate the forgive and forget line.
Support after leaving an abuser I think is still required for in some cases a long, long time as the abuse goes on and on - the conflicting requests from SS and courts. SS say keep the abuser away or keep away from the abuser, the courts say let the abuser see the DC and you have to see them in court. The responsibility falling to the victim on all levels to keep herself safe to keep her DC safe, to abide by the court and often to soley financially support the DC. I know that is a massive subject alone.

There has been a lot of discussion about the gender of the abuser - I think this could also be relevent regarding the claims and then counter claims of who was carrying out the abuse and the effect on the real victim. So some men who claim to have been abused have in fact not and they claim that to inflict further harm on thier victim and to stop the victim from speaking out and vice versa.

[Tee2072]

This is true Stew. I'm just worried that we'll spend so much time worrying if its a male or female issue we'll get bogged down.

It's a victim issue.

I'm heading out for the day (I'm in the US on holiday) but I'll be back after you're all asleep to catch up!

[scallopsrgreat]

I think that this is a really good idea. I agree completely with LeStewpot about Gender. Not recognising this is damaging and has an effect on women just not being believed and abusers being believed when they try and turn it round on to their partner (and it is derailing and tedious and detracts from giving support to the abused person).

"I think there are also many myths around the effects on DC and how the abuser would not abuse them away from the mother so contact with DC continues." Yy betterthanever. It is such an important point that seems to be missed by all the support organisations from police/courts to SS.

[scallopsrgreat]

Sorry betterthanever I've just reiterated what you said in your last paragraph! Must. Read. Properly!

[minkembernard]

I lost a huge post too that was in response to gokickass question. i think the difference is if someone is being selfish in a normal way if you were to point it out to them they.may get defensive but they will still see what you mean.

an abuser would try to deflect the attention to make it your problem or to bring up something you did or to just deny your version of events. as far as they are concerned they are entitled to the biggest portion etc.

but the main defining feature is control. gain by controlling another.

[minkembernard]

extra go in there sorry. was not having a go

as far a gender issue goes i know what fi means. male violence is a male issue (too) - as in TED.lecture link above. so dealing with the issue of what leads to abuse has to be a male issue- peer pressure etc as if we make it a gender issue it is ignored by men who hear 'women's issue' instead of gender.

However, i think.as we seem to be moving mostly at campaign aimed at highlighting the nature of abuse and the importance of disppelling myths about the survivors of abuse....then the survivors are not necessarily gendered. if that makes sense.

so yy to making this campaign about supporting survivors of abuse and empowering them, whatever their gender. and that way it cannot be sidelined as man hating or women's issues.

[betterthanever]

It is great we agree scallop and can all put into our own words.
YY mink an abuser would try to deflect the attention to make it your problem or to bring up something you did or to just deny your version of events which in some ways is why when you try to tell someone else about it who has never expereinced it, it sounds lame sometimes, so you don't say it, until it worse. And if SS or the police are not trained in DA they may misinterpret. Scary - which is why the campaign would be really, really important for so many including those who don't even feel able to post about/talk about it or know about MN or all the organisation already listed for support.

[minkembernard]

yy rose to what constitutes violence.

and at your h for sitting on you!! it really is all about the control.

It is hard for some women to convince themselves they have been abused let alone anyone else because there is another party involved and that party, the abuser, is telling them all the time this is not abuse and it is your fault.

although the good thing about some of the excellent posters on DA on MN who swoop in regularly to threads on rs is that they do believe and they often do the job of convincing the OP. and that is often what is needed (even though having your eyes opened to your DA rs is horrible- which we must never forget when saying LTB. it is a really nasty shock that many survivors initially do no want to be true)

in my case I thought there was only VA, then I realised there was EA...but no PA.... well apart from the PA that is (I would laugh but it isn't funny). It was not serious PA and it was not obvious and I still feel some guilt admitting it because of others who have suffered incomparable degrees of violence and fear which makes what happened to me seem trivial but actually it was still PA in that I knew if push came to shove (literally) it might get nasty. he also knew it would get legal so he drew the line just right where he could get away with it and I could never be sure.
(I realise terms like 'only', 'trivial', 'serious' and 'guilt' are loaded btw I am just illustrating my thought processes and how lpng it took me to recognise it all)

[K8Middleton]

so yy to making this campaign about supporting survivors of abuse and empowering them, whatever their gender. and that way it cannot be sidelined as man hating or women's issues.

Absolutely this ^^

If we start making this a "feminist" issue (which of course it is) large swathes of people we want to influence will be lost. We know there are men who are victims so they have to be included too. Even if it was just one man ever he matters.

I also have some issues with the word "survivor" when many people do not get out or get killed. But I'm prepared to be educated about that.

[lissieloo]

Blimey, this has grown. Off to read the replies now, I'm so glad that you are throwing your weight behind this. MNHQ replied to my enquiry last night, saying that they need to discuss it when everyone is back. But seemed generally positive.

everyone.

[RonaldMcDonald]

I am interested to know how many victims of DA/DV aren't believed.
I haven't seen this as an issue.

The greatest issues I see surround educating people about the nature of an abusive relationship.
For many people DV isn't something they can easily allow themselves to consider.
It seems to feel like a very black or white subject ( ie ...I just don't understand why you don't leave him ) or something that might only happen to someone else ( no one would ever lift a hand to me )

I think that the campaign will need to have very clear messages regarding how insidious DA can sometimes be.
Somehow it will also need to highlight in giant flashing lights the need for support and boundless patience.
I often see DA/DV threads become bun fights when someone who is being abused doesn't feel able or ready to leave an abuser.

IMO The hardest hurdle will be educating women to be kind and gentle and supportive to women who continue to live with an abuser who also physically or verbally abuses their children. I think people generally have the greatest issues with this situation and often forget who the abuser is in that situation.