New NHS guidelines on IVF treatment to extend age limit up to 42 - what do you think?

[JaneGMumsnet]

Good morning,

New IVF guidelines issued by the National Institute of Health & Clinical Excellence (NICE) say that women aged up to 42 should be allowed one cycle of IVF treatment so long as it is their first attempt. Previously Nice recommended treatment up to the age of 39.

The guidelines also suggest that all couples who are struggling to conceive should get fertility treatment more quickly ? after two years of trying to conceive naturally, rather than three.

We'd love to hear what you think.

Thanks,
MNHQ

Frogman Sun 24-Feb-13 17:48:07
Linerunner - then I think you are very naive. The country has no money. We are in a deep deficit.

You might like to read edam's post on the previous page... And yes I do think we can afford to fund IVF.

We can't afford certain things on the NHS because budget decisions are made by people who can't see past short term price tags to long term costs.

'Linerunner - then I think you are very naive. The country has no money. We are in a deep deficit.'

Plenty of money for wars, overseas aid, huge expenses for MP and second homes as well as a generous salary for a job with 12 weeks holiday.

Very late to the debate but just wanted to say I'm in favour of the new guidelines - very good news for women struggling to conceive.

Do you know, it could possibly be said this anti-state-funded-IVF feeling (from people who have had their children "naturally", naturally), is just an extension of the "Why should MY taxes be used to fund OTHER PEOPLE?" sentiment, that usually manifests itself in benefit bashing. It may not be conscious, but I do think that some people subconsciously resent the money they hand over to the government being used for people other than them.

It's a sentiment the Americans usually express more openly than we do, but at least they are honest about it. Many Americans resent those on welfare because they think they are lazy or haven't made the right choices, unlike them. I see a parallel here.

No doubt some successful procreator will leap up to tell me I am talking bollocks very soon. Oh well. It was just a thought.

You are not talking bollocks, Ariel.

Sorry expat, I meant successful-procreator-who-has-the-empathy-of-a-rabbit-dropping, which obviously discounts the more usual, nice people such as yourself :)

I am a successful-procreator-type who absolutely would not want to pull up the ladder behind me.

Who would want to do that? What kind of person adopts that attitide of 'Fuck you' over something so important and fundamental to people, as having children?

Twats, that's who.

And yes I do pay taxes.

I added a MASSIVE caveat to the original rather badly thought through statement, Line :). Hopefully no one will take offence apart from those whom it was intended for

Bravo, LineRunner! I never had fertility problems, either, but don't understand the level of mean-spiritedness I see growing in the UK, vicious, 'I'm all-right-Jack so fuck you!' or 'If I can't have it, don't get it, no one should,' just low-rent form of thinking.

With reference to the comment above about going overseas for IVF, there are no reliable figures on this. How could there be? It's not like you have to declare what you're doing when you check in at the airport. I swiftly stopped telling people about it unless I absolutely had to, because you get some really strange reactions -- however much you explain, people think you are going abroad for a holiday. Mmm yes my 'holidays' normally feature medical treatment and then hanging around in an apartment for several days . Since the new legislation in 2005 requiring all donors in the UK to be identifiable, rates of donation of eggs and sperm have dropped noticeably, meaning that couples who need gametes (particularly eggs) are likely to consider the overseas option at some stage.

I did tell my NHS midwife & consultant the treatment we'd done but to be honest they aren't very interested in how you got pregnant. I'm sure we could have never mentioned it, and some people probably never do. The HFEA 'guidance' about overseas treatment is rather sniffy and there is a strong subtext that if you go abroad you are taking your life in your hands, which I found very worrying and unhelpful when we were looking into it. In the event the medics overseas were thoroughly professional and unlike the majority of the medics we'd encountered in the UK, were very keen for us to succeed. There was no judgment. Even the clinic's taxi driver shook us by the hand and wished us a successful outcome. It was moving.

Bottom line: I reckon UK IVF rates are much higher than anyone realises.

I never knew I felt so strongly about this until I read this thread.

The nastiness of people over 'older mothers' is fucking horrendous. The disingenuous bleating about 'competition for scarce NHS resources' is predictably cruel from the secure right-wing.

Well, good for NICE. They have recommended evidence-based treatment guidelines for a medical condition. Good on MN for publicising these (as usual).

It's very much the "I'm alright jack" attitude. If they have children why should they care if someone else needs help? It's not their problem. Morons.

I cant understand how anyone can begrudge fertility treatment, having being blessed with my madthings i wish more could be done to help those with fertility issues which is why i donated eggs.

I cant begin to imagine the heartache it causes and maybe those that are so against ivf etc should step back and try and imagine themselves in the position of needing fertility treatment.

I don't know if anyone's said this 5madthings, but that's a great thing you've done. Thank you :)

Its fine ariel as i said i have been blessed with my five and wanted to share that luck, and thats all.it is luck! My recpient had twins!! Just going through the process of giving eggs was stressful enough so i cant imagine having to go through it and then having to go on and try and get pregnant as well. In the big scheme of things it was not a problem for me to do it, but must be much harder with the weight of needing it to get a baby.

If i can i may donate one more time, i need to speak to dp tho as it is logistically hard to organise re childcare and travel as i have to go to.london for the egg retrieval etc.

If by some miracle the ivf embryo currently in me happens to stick around, I really want to consider donating the four we froze. I am so grateful for the help we've had all through this, and if we can help another couple who are in an even worse position than us...

Well said Ariel. You are absolutely right about people's attitude, and it stinks.

Fingers crossed for you northey xxx

Yes fingers crossed here too Northey. And I agree with the scepticism about 'we're in a deficit, we can't afford it'. We've afforded writing off £6bn owed by Vodaphone alone in taxes. That would have paid for a lot of IVF. The government is casual enough about what it can afford when it wants to be.

In terms of 'we can't afford it' why are NHS trusts paying PFI companies ahead of ensuring staffing levels are safe? We should be defaulting on such deals which are unaffordable and renegotiating them, if we really are that broke.

Why is it, that women are an easier target than the companies who run these appalling schemes?

I don't think we can say women are a target when IVF is being extended although the NHS always has scarce resources so probably most mothers on here woudl think there should be an age cut off point and a fixed number of attempts. What would you put that at?

i certainly reserve my right to have IVF triplets at 60 if I so choose (I doubt I will) although not on the NHS.

Someone mentioned 20 year old virgins. I did graduate a tee total virgin at 20 all part of the plan to win university prizes, have babies early which I could afford to keep etc which I formulated when I was about 14. I am saying that encourage daughters to plan careers and perhaps careers which earn a lot of money so they can fund IVF (be the doctor not the nurse etc etc) and plan their babies in time liness which are more likely than not to result in what their aims are.

You did it the only right way, tis true.

But you can't plan for a baby if you have an undiscovered fertility problem!

It is not just about women who "leave it too late", it is about those of us that have been actively trying for many years but cannot get pregnant due to a medical problem. It took 18 months for me to be diagnosed with a problem and now, another 18 months later, I am still going through treatment. If this treatment fails then I will be referred on for IVF.