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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

New NHS guidelines on IVF treatment to extend age limit up to 42 - what do you think?

583 replies

JaneGMumsnet · 20/02/2013 10:26

Good morning,

New IVF guidelines issued by the National Institute of Health & Clinical Excellence (NICE) say that women aged up to 42 should be allowed one cycle of IVF treatment so long as it is their first attempt. Previously Nice recommended treatment up to the age of 39.

The guidelines also suggest that all couples who are struggling to conceive should get fertility treatment more quickly ? after two years of trying to conceive naturally, rather than three.

We'd love to hear what you think.

Thanks,
MNHQ

OP posts:
ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 20/02/2013 21:37

Take no notice expat. It's just a stupid, ill thought out comment x

livingzuid · 20/02/2013 21:38

Have read this with great interest and a got bit emotional, so hope you will forgive the long post. It always astonishes me how different things are across the Channel. In The Netherlands where I am, many women don't start families until they are in their 40s which is considered absolutely fine. We pay for our health insurance same as we would our NI and I am entitled to three rounds of IVF all included in my package and it wouldn't be a problem for me to start this in my 40s if I so choose. Granted, we pay a bit extra every month for an enhanced deal (it's sort of state but private at the same time and you have to pay, I don't really understand it), but for us it is worth the extra 30 a month which covers all sorts of other things as well such as free eye and dental care!

Yes, it's a much smaller population here but I think France and Germany too have very good IVF schemes.

At the (grand) age of 34 after having met my dream man two years ago (after a divorce), we had been trying for a year and a half when I trotted down to our GP and got an immediate referral to a specialist gynecological unit and an appointment within 2 weeks. On forums I have read, I've seen people complain of waiting lists of six months Confused personally I didn't think that was too bad! I know of women who traveled to Belgium to clinics as it was a) faster and b) cheaper. Not sure if there isn't some sort of reciprocal agreement either but I could be wrong.

I am sure there are expats and Dutch ladies on this forum who would say I am looking at the system a bit too much with rose-tinted spectacles, but from my experiences here it has been so much more straightforward. It's mainly that the outlook is just so totally different and it's just accepted that yes, as a woman you would like the opportunity to at least try for a family with your loved one.

When trying, I felt like a complete and total failure as a woman every time my period arrived. It was the most dejected, depressing awful feeling in the world that I couldn't give the man I loved babies. Having gone from a marriage where I couldn't ever stomach the thought of children to where I so badly wanted to provide the man I love with a family and not being able to do so broke me every month.

To some of the posts here who say it is only natural to not get pregnant if it just isn't going to happen, well my pragmatic, ruthless side would agree - that was my opinion with my ex. But now I totally understand that desire and feel a bit ashamed of my past opinion.

I nearly went through the pain of IVF (and who knows, I may still have to). I have had a friend who went through it with heartbreaking results on the first time. With my health issues, should my DH and I be denied the chance of a IVF because it would impact on my health too much? Who has the right to make that decision apart from us - we go into it eyes wide open. What IVF continues to do is offer hope. I would not want to take that away from anyone.

I am thrilled that the UK is bending a bit on this issue. I wish it would look to its neighbors to see if there are some lessons to be learnt on providing such care and save families and ladies spending 10000s.

Sheila · 20/02/2013 21:38

Mrs DV - Why does it follow that because someone is desperate for a child the NHS must obviously enable them to have one?

Hard not to see that as entitled.

GinAndSlimlinePlease · 20/02/2013 21:40

I'm biased from personal experience, so I agree with the revised guidelines. as others have said though, what really matters is how your pct applies them.

I've got fertility problems. It sucks. It is really upsetting. And the reasons are medical, not because I'm too old. in fact, my DH and I started ttc before we were married because we expected some problems. If we hadn't, we'd just be going through everything a year later and older.

I don't see myself as any more entitled for fertility treatment as I was for broken bones. In fact, I think it's amazing we live in a country with the NHS. And any IVF treatment I receive will be a blessing.

This is a really sensitive issue for those of us suffering from infertility. And trust me, having ivf is not a decision taken lightly.

PolkadotCircus · 20/02/2013 21:40

Hard not to see wanting treatment after you have ruined your health by choice with cigarettes,food,alcohol or laziness as entitled.

gaelicsheep · 20/02/2013 21:41

Sheila - you talk as if a child was a lifestyle item, like a car or a nice house. Now maybe to people who can pop them out without a second thought that's all they are, I do sometimes wonder the way people talk on here. But really it is an incredibly foolish and heartless way to talk to women who long for children they may never have.

Sheila · 20/02/2013 21:42

Polka- alcoholism is a disease, childlessness is not.

gaelicsheep · 20/02/2013 21:43

You have no f*cking idea

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 20/02/2013 21:43

Sheila I find your lack of comprehension and empathy startling.

I have paid into the NHS since I was 22. I have barely used it (before 2012 usual screening and a bout of bronchitis).

Is it the word "desperate" which troubles you? Does this indicate desire and want and therefore entitlement?

PolkadotCircus · 20/02/2013 21:44

Errr. I think you'll find pcos,endo and depression cased by childlessness are.

maamalady · 20/02/2013 21:45

Enable them to try to have one, Sheila. It's a basic human drive, you can't just turn it off - believe me, I'd be a lot happier if I could.

Livingzuid - really interesting perspective, thank you. The Dutch are clearly way ahead of us! The thought of a two-week wait for an appointment sounds like some sort of fantasy land. Maybe we should emigrate, I have a Belgian friend who could teach me Dutch...

thixotropic · 20/02/2013 21:45

I just think it's bloody outrageous that if the man has kids from a previous relationship, no matter if estranged or adults, then some trusts wont fund IVF.

I was gobsmacked when a good friend had to pay for her own IVF because her dh had grown up 2 kids with his first wife.

How the Fuck can that be the same for the woman as having her own child?

And yet if shed moved 5 miles over the border, 3 cycles on the NHS.

Bonkers.

It would be good if it was the same for everyone.

johnnybear71 · 20/02/2013 21:45

I wish everyone trying for a baby all the luck in the world and of course they should try everything available...and I'm sorry if anyone is offended but i still stick to my own beliefs...we didnt have this option a few years ago and for as painful as it people got on with it...what is the emotional cost to the women (and their partners) who go through it time and time again and it fails...what is the success rates?...what are the dangers?...what is the average costs?....We have spent millions of years evolving and a part of that is the survival of the fittest...ok so here we go on johnnybear bashing but its still a fact...we are trying to bend nature to our own means and I think if you just take a look past our own tiny world then maybe we could see that this is just another way of increasing the population...we are bringing more children in to a world that will not be able to cope...I know I must sound like a heartless bd but I can see the future and its not bright..its very dark in its the next couple of generations will be the ones fighting for survival....i urge you to take a look at the following link and see the numbers out there and show you how much is left....again I'm sorry for any distress I may have caused but the fact is we are bringing more people in to a dying world without thought..xx
www.worldometers.info/

gaelicsheep · 20/02/2013 21:47

thixotropic - yes you may have seen earlier we fell foul of that. Kids were nearly grown up and estranged due to poisonous ex (will not go there). And yet they claimed that was enough reason not to even investigate my fertility problems (which included a great deal of pain).

Sheila · 20/02/2013 21:47

I'm not criticising anyone for wanting a child desperately, and I feel compassion for women in this situation, but that is a separate issue from whether IVF should be provided by the NHS.

GinAndSlimlinePlease · 20/02/2013 21:47

err, Sheila, actually the causes of my infertility are diseases.

Why don't you go do some research other than the daily fail and then come back and discuss?

gaelicsheep · 20/02/2013 21:48

In the GP actually sat there with us both in his office, me complaining of two weeks of pain every month, that we'd been trying to conceive for over a year. He sat there and told me to take paracetamol for the pain.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 20/02/2013 21:49

Yes thank you Johnny.

You obviously feel strongly about this, which is fine, but perhaps you could create your own thread about it.

maamalady · 20/02/2013 21:51

I appreciate people have differing points of view on this, but if people could remember how deeply upsetting even thinking about this topic is to many others, it would help. As I said earlier, being infertile is like being in a permanent state of grief. Wording your comments accordingly would be both helpful and kind, even if you disagree with IVF for older women, or anyone at all.

PolkadotCircus · 20/02/2013 21:51

So let me get this right you as a father of 4 have the right to use up the world's resources with your oversized family but a couple wanting an IVF baby don't.Hmm

Oh and it isn't bending nature,the same happens in the Petri dish as that in the body.It is a very mundane procedure,less nature bending than a lot of cancer treatments I suspect.

Sheila · 20/02/2013 21:53

Ginandslim maybe you could read my earlier posts and then come back and discuss?

You have raised the level of debate no end there.

GinAndSlimlinePlease · 20/02/2013 21:53

well said evilgiraffe

expatinscotland · 20/02/2013 21:54

Since you care so much about overpopulation, johnnybear, I'm puzzled as to why you fathered 4 children.

BlackSwan · 20/02/2013 21:55

All this just serves to increase the strain on the NHS. Not just for the IVF session, but also for the resulting pregnancies/births or terminations. I'm completely against it.

Our bodies don't give us a blank cheque - neither should the NHS.

GinAndSlimlinePlease · 20/02/2013 21:55

I did read your earlier posts actually Sheila, and found them ill educated. Having children would improve one of my conditions actually.