Your thoughts on unpaid internships? Slave labour or needs must?

[FrancesMumsnet]

Hello. We've been asked by the folks at InternAware for your comments, experiences and thoughts about unpaid internships, the system where young people work for free, sometimes for extended periods, in return for something to put on their CV - and maybe a foot on the first rung of their chosen career ladder.

InternAware are worried about the financial toll this system is taking on family life. They say 37% of interns complete 3 or more internships (European Youth Forum survey) and, as most
unpaid internships are based in London (where living costs are high), a single typical three-month internship could end up costing a much as £3000.

If you'd like to, you could sign InternAware's letter to Nick Clegg, which calls on the government to do something to help families struggling to help their children get a job. (Clegg, if you remember, said last year that "internships have been the almost exclusive preserve of the sharp-elbowed and the well-connected", and that they should be paid).

But most of all, we'd be interested in hearing your thoughts: do please post them here.

In the corporate sector, work experience people and short term interns are a PITA. It has to be at least 3 months to make it worth investing any time in training someone and giving them skills and experience. Clearly this will favour some people with conducive personal circumstances. Life isn't fair.

On the other hand, I think it is an appalling way to resource government by interns for mps - chances like that absolutely should be given on merit and merit alone.

Puffykins - Not sure about housing benefit. I know you used to be able to claim JSA, but that has, unsurprisingly, been stopped.

Funding through part-time work is also very much hampered by how difficult it is to get a job currently.

I worked in Belgium for a while, and while I was there was made aware of their intern-ship system. Its paid - low pay - for up to six months, and more or less just the longest job interview you will ever go to. Most interns stayed with their hiring company, but a few move on (often to bigger better things), a few were serial interns, trying different jobs (a great way of working if you are not sure what you want to do yet!).

All in, it was an excellent system as it was regulated and protected way of giving experience.

TBH I am not that sure you'll ever get rid of the privilege issue; but at least you can try and sort out fair opportunities for young people. By making sure there is a minimum payment (think it was E500 or so but with perks like E6 per day lunch voucher and in BRU you got half your travel paid by your employer if you used public transport .... ) you at least make sure there are some basics in place to protect people from being exploited.

Slave labour.

Unpaid internships are effectively barred to young people who have no family able to financially subsidise them. This is particularly the case if the young person in question is from outside London (or wherever the internship is based) and has to pay for accommodation on top of working for free.

If a company has 3 months worth of work for an intern to do, they should be olbliged to pay them at least minimum wage.

Exploitation. Unless you are talking about brief episodes of actual work experience.

I did an unpaid trial day at my job (retail ) before I started, after a very brief interview. I was told by an ex worker there that everybody does one - this does seem to be the case.

I found it quite demeaning even though I enjoyed the day and found it much easier to "prove" myself than an interview. I also had to pay for childcare which meant it was a bit of a gamble - what if I hadn't got the job?

Short periods of work experience are fine. I've had people approach me wanting to do work experience and it's usually for a week or two. I would never go looking for free labour. Long internships are not fine for all of the reasons everyone else has outlined.

If a job needs doing, pay someone to do it. I know of organisations cutting full time, paid posts only to go out and ask 'volunteers' to come in and do these jobs.

And it's not just about whether parents can financially afford to support their children through an internship, it's about whether parents want to. Some children are born to parents who don't. Some children are desperate to escape home for whatever reason and I'm pretty sure there isn't anywhere else 'free' out there to live.

I'm with Intern Aware. Very much support their campaign.

I think they are a bad idea and we should see more apprentaships. People working their way up

MPs could start by banning unpaid internships in the House of Commons. Work experience for a week or two - fine. Internships - exploitation that shuts the door to all but those fortunate enough to have wealthy parents.

I agree with Nick Clegg's "internships have been the almost exclusive preserve of the sharp-elbowed and the well-connected"

Lets hope he remembers saying that.

Not only are they unfair (in that if there 's a job to be done someone should be getting paid to do it) but they are having a negative affect on a lot of the more 'glamourous' industries, particularly the communication industries. If the only way in is via unpaid internship, and the only people who are going to be able to work for nothing are the wealthy and well-connected, then the whole of the media is going to get even more smug, ignorant and self-regarding than a lot of it is at the present.

I did an internship in the publishing sector in late 2011. The literary agent had 4 highly qualified graduates working for no money, bar the cost of travel for zones 1-2 (London). I lost a huge amount of money paying rent/food/travel. I'm from NW England and I'm definitely the stereotypical well-connected and sharp-elbowed pushy graduate! I found it stressful and quite soul destroying, as the agent frequently joked that nepotism rules in publishing. I read over 1000 submissions and was instructed to find a novel that would be financially successful, not necessarily the most eloquently written or thought provoking.

Long term internships are a disgrace. I undertook one as I didn't know what else to do. Companies exploit graduates and are taking advantage of the current economic/unemployment situation. As MPs hire graduates to work unpaid on 8 month internships I doubt they will want to change the system anytime soon.

In France, legislation was recently brought in to enforce payment for any internship over 8 weeks. It's around 500 euros a month.

Internships/work experience is an obligatory part of the vocational degree courses which are common here.

When the law came in, a lot of companies grumbled but in the end, our students all found placements.

However, it has been a big issue for the courses which involve internships in the charity sector - charities or associations do not usually have the means to pay someone.

Students get around this by doing a 6 week placement in the 1st year of study, and a 4 week one in the 2nd, instead of a ten-week block, but it's not ideal.

They almost always do the internship in term time and near where they already live.

I am v. interested in what will happen in the UK because part of my job is placing foreign Business students in companies in English-speaking countries.

These students DO have huge additional costs of accomodation, travel, etc. and most companies do not pay them.

In fact that is one of the reasons why they will take on our students.

It IS a lot of work taking on a student, but usually the experience is mutually beneficial (I have never had a company "exploit" a student by getting them to do photocopying and filing for 10 weeks unpaid).

Agree completely with SGB and others, the whole situation stinks.

My DS1 graduated with First class honours in Bristol last year, he worked really hard to get it, but then had to sit and watch all of his wealthier friends go off for Internships in London.

Yes of course he could've lived at home and done an Internship, i would've gone without to feed him for the duration, but there aren't any internships going in the Music industry in the middle of Pembrokeshire.

The black and white of it is, if you're from a poorer background, you can really only get so far, but then you will be overtaken by your peers who have wealthy parents, regardless of how hard you work.

It's disgusting, it really is.

This question is strange. It sounds like there is a choice. If the companies have the money and need people but are instead taking advantage of young people willing to work for free it is terrible. However, I suspect (hope!) this is rarely the case?

In my field is very common for keen youngsters to volunteer. This can be done during the semester in the uni. It is the main way to get a real experience, and probably the best way to differentiate yourself from the other hundreds of graduates that will have exactly the same qualification. Why is it done? because there is no money in the field to pay for people, specially unqualified ones. So if these youngster wouldn't volunteer, the work would still be done by the few of us that are lucky to be paid and work all kind of hours and they would graduate with nothing besides good grades. Sounds mean, but is true, in some fields good grades will not get you much on its own.

by the way, there are a few handfuls of fellowships available for paid summer experience. But if you haven't been lucky to get one of those, I suggest try to volunteer and get some good letters of recomendations and contacts.

I think it's important to differentiate between part-time/short term placements (I.e. can be done during holidays/term time whilst still a student) and full-time/long term placements (I.e over 3 months and mostly taken by graduates)

We have interns in the consultancy I work in and I insist they are paid. Its not a great salary (~12K), but I feel it is immoral - and possibly illegal - to ask a young person to work for free, just because they are starting on their career. Interestingly, because we are in the NW, it hasnt been easy to find them, even though the role is a real stepping stone to a really good career.

I think this is often a north-south issue, When DS did his degree at a top northern uni he decided not to do an internship due to the cost of finding somewhere to live in London. His friends who lived in or near London were able to do them at minimal cost,

The opportunities in the South-East are far greater than in the rest of the UK and this becomes self-perpetuating.

i couldn't afford it, as a single mum. I'm not working in my field now and probably never will. I would have been good, too. Not a genius, but only a few points off. On minimum wage now, and probably always will be. You guys missed out.

Internships and all other jobs should be paid! Life costs money. Only those with money to back them can afford to work for nothing, those without financial help could not take up these posts. If you work, you get paid. If you work without pay then someone is getting free labour and another on the unemployment list cannot get a paid job.

It reinforces the stranglehold of urban elites (especially Londoners) on positions of power and influence, as it is now extremely difficult to enter politics or journalism without being able to work for free for an indeterminate length of time. I think it's used in many industries to ensure that only "the right sort of people" (i.e. upper-middle to middle class Londoners) can come in at graduate level.

I have been working as a part-time student volunteer for the last 12 months. My circumstances are probably very unusual however - I am a mature full-time undergraduate, and also a 51 year old woman, which puts me into the demographic sector most likely to be unemployed or to have lost their jobs during the current recession. And I have a teenage son with SN, and am living with an 83 year old parent.

The sector I volunteer/study/hope to work in (Heritage Management) is virtually impossible to gain employment in wthout volunteer experience. But 25% of the students on my course - all of whom have significant, focussed and committed volunteer experience, - have actually gained permanent (albeit part-time) employment in this sector while they are still full-time University students.

I feel quite bitter and twisted about the fact I'm deemed to be too old to be employable in my former career, and now have to work for nowt for a while to get my foot back in the door. Especially when I have bills to pay and a family to support. BUT - the benefits of volunteering/internship are incalculable, if you can swing it and/or find a floor to sleep on if necessary.

Trust me. The boost to self-esteem, the contact with professionals in your chosen field and the opportunities to network are beyond price. Just as long as it's not longer than 3 months . Any longer is just taking the piss.

there was no way I could volunteer with childcare expenses. A few of my uni mates who did not have kids did volunteer and now have good jobs. But there was no way I could work pt amd volunteer and look after my kids, just wasn't doable. I have a 2:1 in psychology and sociology, i work in a cafe for minimum wage. It sucks.

I don't have to worry about chidcare issues - Ds is 16 and DH works from home. But the overwhelming majority of voluntary work is part-time.

Where I work, they have almost 200 volunteers. You can just work 3 hours per month if that suits, or 4 days a week if that's what you want (like some retired people) and we work with a lot of people with disabilities, and many very elderly folk too, some in their 90s. It's also quite an intellectually challenging sector to work in (museums).

12 year ago this sure as hell wasn't an option for me. I didn't have the luxury of choosing to work for free - I had to graft and pay for childcare and rent and bills as a single parent. But young single child-free peeps can crash on floors and work evenings and week-ends to get by for a few weeks/months. And most folk with kids can arrange childcare for a few hours a week.