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MNHQ

Yes, we know it's sweltering high summer but... flu vaccines for all children? Your thoughts?

102 replies

HelenMumsnet · 25/07/2012 15:48

Hello.

We thought you might be interested to know that today the Department of Health announced that all two to 17-year-olds in the UK are to be offered annual flu vaccinations - though the programme won't start rolling out till 2014.

Until now, only children in at-risk groups, with conditions such as asthma, cerebral palsy or heart conditions, were eligible to get the vaccine on the NHS.

According to the BBC, children will be immunised using a nasal spray rather than an injection. (The injectable flu vaccine will still be offered to the over-65s, pregnant women and those with medical conditions such as asthma.)

Uptake will be voluntary but the Government believes the programme will lead to a 40% drop in the number of people catching flu, as well as 11,000 fewer hospitalisations and 2,000 fewer deaths a year.

So.... good idea? Or not? Would you take up the offer of flu vaccinations for your children?

Please do tell...

OP posts:
FrankWippery · 25/07/2012 23:45

Absolutely. DD3 spent a week in HDU with pneumonia earlier this year and is chronically asthmatic. I would and will do anything to make sure her risks are minimal.

My older 3 are mid/late teens so it may not apply to them. One has the flu jab already as she's also asthmatic.

gelatinous · 25/07/2012 23:45

I heard children usually only get flu mildly and this is more to prevent bad cases in adults than for their own benefit, so I'm not really sure of the ethics of using dc like that. Mine will be too old by then in any case.

FrankWippery · 25/07/2012 23:49

I should add that DD3 is only 3 and this was our first northern Europe winter. She is still not fully recovered from her illness 5 months ago, so I suspect at her next outpatient appointment we may well be offered the jab.

harbingerofdoom · 25/07/2012 23:59

saintlyjimjams well worth highlighting the risk.

PS It's a virus. Can change it's RNA very quickly.

I believe that some elderly people were immune to a recent strain of 'flu because they survived it in the 40s/50s/60s.

inkycat · 26/07/2012 03:08

Another drug to give our kids! Are they not allowed to build up their own immunity to germs etc... Totally understand if kids have asthma etc.
This is going to cost the country a fortune , money I thought we didn't have , if that is the case I'll have my child benefit back that they are taking away from me in April. No I will not be getting kids vaccinated every year for the foreseeable, what are the long term risks ?!

Zwitterion · 26/07/2012 03:22

I'm not sure of the ethics either gelatinous.

Is it ok to vaccinate children (who won't necessarily benefit greatly if healthy) to protect the wider population?

I think I will take this up though.

ripsishere · 26/07/2012 06:44

My DD will be having it if it is offered to her. She has been vaxed against everything else, so one more won't make a difference.

RubyGates · 26/07/2012 07:07

Now this is interesting....
It's a commnet on another article on the general efficacy of the flu vaccine (which I can't read because it only lets you read one before it demands a log-in) and the ethics of forcing health-care professionals into having a flu-jab:

Peter Rice, GP Partner,
20 Oct 2011
the common vector of flu is children. Are teachers an at risk group?
(www.pulsetoday.co.uk/main-content/-/article_display_list/12911759/show-us-the-evidence-for-the-flu-jab)

So maybe the jab for children has nothing to witht their health and everything to do with protecting other groups of the population for whom the flu-jab has prooved to be less effective.

RubyGates · 26/07/2012 07:07

proved.

BumgrapesofWrath · 26/07/2012 08:56

Seems ridiculous, total overkill. I am under the impression that 'flu is actually pretty rare (having never had it myself, neither my DH or any of the members of my close family).

Also, for a healthy person it should not be life threatening.

Seems like a waste of money, I'd prefer the money to be spent elsewhere in the NHS.

JustGettingByMum · 26/07/2012 08:57

I'm in the camp of wanting more info and needing to be convinced that this is for the benefit of my child rather than my child being used to lower the risk to others. Surely it's better for a healthy child to build up their own immune systems?

Taken to extremes, does this mean that when our children are old and vulnerable the rest of the population will be wrapped in cling film to keep their germs away? Start of a slippery slope and all that!

GetKnitted · 26/07/2012 09:01

We will probably not go in for it TBH. Ever ssince they rushed out the swine flu vaccination without proper testing I've been highly sceptical.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/07/2012 09:16

Is it ok to vaccinate children (who won't necessarily benefit greatly if healthy) to protect the wider population?

Yes, this. To me it seems more sensible to ensure that those at real risk get the vaccination rather than vaccinate healthy children against something that generally speaking isn't a risk to them. My cynical side says that they are thinking 'here's a good proportion of the population we can vaccinate en masse (in school) and it will be loads less hassle than encouraging people to come in of their own volition'. School health are hardly under worked at the moment either.

My 3 are late teens/20s - the two healthy ones have never had the flu. The other one gets vaccinated. And as an aside there have been years when the surgery ran out of vax. Let's hope they don't start vaccinating children and then running out for those that really need it.

Waswondering · 26/07/2012 09:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

saggarmakersbottomknocker · 26/07/2012 09:18

Sorry - that first bit reads like I agree with vaccinating for the greater good and I don't.

fanoftheinvisibleman · 26/07/2012 09:24

I don't think ds will have it. He has no underlying health conditions so no reason to believe flu would be anything other than a very unpleasant incident for him.

I am aware that flu is awful, I have had it twice. It winds me up when you see people out and about who say they have it as it is not a 'bad' cold, you are knocked off your feet very literally. Ds had it one year too. It was a couple of months before the swine flu outbreak and we fitted the symtoms completely. I've always wondered if that's what it was.

But I still don't think it is worth vaccinating a healthy person who is likely to get over it quickly. I am 36 and had it once as a child and once as an adult so I really don't think of it as an annual concern.

fanoftheinvisibleman · 26/07/2012 09:24

I don't think ds will have it. He has no underlying health conditions so no reason to believe flu would be anything other than a very unpleasant incident for him.

I am aware that flu is awful, I have had it twice. It winds me up when you see people out and about who say they have it as it is not a 'bad' cold, you are knocked off your feet very literally. Ds had it one year too. It was a couple of months before the swine flu outbreak and we fitted the symtoms completely. I've always wondered if that's what it was.

But I still don't think it is worth vaccinating a healthy person who is likely to get over it quickly. I am 36 and had it once as a child and once as an adult so I really don't think of it as an annual concern.

worldgonecrazy · 26/07/2012 09:32

I think that the vaccine should be offered to those who are at risk and who will need it most. I did a lot of reading around flu vaccines as I was pregnant at the height of the swine flu "epidemic". It seems there are certain tissue types which are less at risk of catching flu, and there are those who are more at risk - obesity and some ethnicities being more at risk of complications.

I have made it to 42 years of age and never had flu, though those around me have had it and been laid up for 2-3 days. I suspect I'm one of the lucky ones with the right tissue type and DD also has a very robust immune system.

Although natural immunity can never be guaranteed, exposure to a strain of flu virus will develop immunity to that strain, and also mean that the body recognises similar strains as "cousins" and have some resistance.

Of course, there is always the risk of a new strain developing, or one of the particularly nasty strains that turn the body's immune system on itself, but I am a great believer in natural immunity being preferable to unnatural immunity.

So I don't think it should be rolled out to every child, just to those that need it the most. That way we get the benefits of natural immunity building in those with good immune systems, and protection for those with weakened immune systems.

saintlyjimjams · 26/07/2012 09:46

I am interested in how they are going to 'sell' this to parents - given that they're suggesting vaccinating children who are not at risk to protect others rather than the children themselves.

I am very unsure of the ethics of exposing someone (anyone - not just children) to the risks of a vaccination if they or a family member are not likely to receive the most benefit.

The JCVI (according to the minutes of their last meeting) do appear to recognise this is going to be a hard sell, will be interested to see how they go about it.

BedHog · 26/07/2012 10:30

Well Matthew Wright has just said that we (Mumsnet users) are worried about this vaccine causing encephalitis(sp?) and asthma Confused. Is there another thread about it? Can't see any comments above....Confused

iseenodust · 26/07/2012 10:34

This is not intended wholly for the benefit of the children. Most medics agree healthy children will tolerate a bout of flu. Children with other health conditions are vaccination priorities anyway. It is about reducing the incidence of flu in adults.

In a nutshell they can corral kids at school to give vaccination whereas adults are notoriously poor at getting themselves down to the doctors even when they are in an at risk category - 51% last winter in the at risk under 65's.
uptake figures

So I'm leaning towards a no.

sumsumsum · 26/07/2012 10:36

I agree with jimjams' last post. Interesting that the ethical position is now: "sacrifice children to the greater good", rather than "women and children first", "children are our future" etc - positions which have held sway until recently.

Nothing to do with the vested interests of pharmaceutical companies, however, I'm quite sure.

sumsumsum · 26/07/2012 10:39

"Aids compliance" has always been used as to justify vaccination decisions.

When I asked why my first dc was expected to have so many vaxes at such a very young age, I was given the reason "aids compliance" - ie mum too knackered and post-natally weirded out to say no.

McKayz · 26/07/2012 10:59

I don't think I'll be getting it for the DCs. No underlying health problems. I've never had a flu jab and never had flu either.

Flyingwithoutwings · 26/07/2012 13:02

I had 'flu in Oct & Nov. I was ill for 8 weeks (off work for 4). It turned into pneumonia and has left me with asthma (which I had for the first 17 years of my life but I grew out of it and have been fine for 21 years).
I could see how people die from it. I have never felt so ill, never want to again. I only carried on fighting because of DS. I felt like every breath was my last.
Sounds over dramatic but I quite honestly though it was the end for me Sad

I would never want anyone to be that ill so yes, I'd get it for DS.