Free nursery milk: your thoughts?

[HelenMumsnet]

Hello.

We've been asked by the Department of Health for your views on the future of the Nursery Milk Scheme in England, Scotland and Wales.

Currently, nursery milk is a universal benefit: a third of a pint of free milk is provided for all under-fives having at least two hours of childcare, and any childcare setting can claim the cost of milk provided to any child, regardless of the child's home circumstances.

The Department of Health says the cost of the scheme has doubled in four years to £53m - with some childcare providers apparently claiming back 92p per pint provided. (The average price for a pinta is 36p in England).

So, the Government is now opening a consultation, to "explore options for modernising and simplifying the operation of the Nursery Milk Scheme to improve efficiency and provide better value for money, while ensuring that all children under five attending a childcare setting for more than two hours a day continue to receive free milk".

In other words, while the Government remains committed to providing free nursery milk, it wants to look at the potential impact on some cost-cutting options.

You can read more about the consultation on the DOH's consultations website - and click through to add your comments.

You may also be interested to read this BBC report.

There is also a separate survey for childcare providers about the current scheme and the possible effect of potential changes. Please do fill it in, if you're a childcare provider (closes July 16th).

As ever, you're all also most welcome to add your thoughts to this thread, too.

I must be the only one who liked drinking milk in school!!

It sounds like it could be done a bit cheaper with someone picking up milk from shop on way to work? instead of delivery?

I think if it is a drink to be provided I would much prefer my children to have milk to diluted fruit juice esp between meals. I disagree about changing it to fruit as there are then preferences in fruit to consider, and this is more sugary.

Perhaps there are better calcium sources but cant see them serving these to pre-school children cheaper.

I drank (and still do in fact) a lot of milk. And my DS is the same. I think it's important that this scheme continues and it should remain for ALL under 5s. However how can some nurseries be claiming back 92p per pint? Likely to be because the providers of said milk (caterers? milkman?) are adding a huge mark up to the basic price per pint. Totally unacceptable.

Somehow the middleman needs to be cut out, because they're the only ones benefitting from this.

Some is incredibly vague and I think purposefully inflammatory. As has been said, the 92p is common price for kosher milk in many areas. Also food and milk tends to more expensive in some areas (particularly the smaller islands) than in others.

The "priority milk" (as it was called then) for under 5s goes back decades (it's in WW2 booklets) due to it being a relatively cheap source of fats, proteins, calcium, iodine (the Secretary of Health is currently going against WHO guidelines for adding iodine to salt because of the amount of milk drunk in the UK which has nothing to do with the guidelines in the first place) and many other trace minerals needed.

A Healthy Start style voucher scheme would probably be helpful to a lot of childcare providers, more choice to suit their group's needs.

Aaahhh I see, I didn't read the whole thread. I have to admit I didn't even know you could get kosher milk.

Okay I need to google kosher, because I obviously have no idea what it means? kosher Haribos?!

our nursery has never provided this

I think it should either be provided universally or not at all. And there's no point saying it should be spent on something else, as someone else said up thread with this government, the money will just disappear.

Atm free fruit/veg is already provided in schools to infant age children (or it was until recently anyway). At lot of children in dd's school don't have breakfast so the free milk and fruit is a real godsend.

In most nurseries and preschools, the milk claim will be done via a thrid party , the two biggest being Scotts milk and coolmilk/milk4childminders. These companies will organise the supply ,delivery and claim back of the milk on provision of the relevant paperwork to show eligibility. If you ask early years providers, many will tell you that these companies often want to provide the maximum amounts claimable, hence why there is often alot left over, before the fact alot of kids don't drink the stuff!

Babies can be provided with formula, and one company also offers soya milk, but only to nurseries and only if ordering lareg amounts. As a childminder I can only order full fat or semiskimmed , which as 2 of the children i care for are dairy intolerant, is blooming annoying!

Oh and I take exception to the statements querying why childminders should be allowed to claim and the suggestion that we might in some way use the milk not in the way intended We are early years educators in the same way as nurseries and preschools, all delivering the EYFS curriculum and have to provide the same eligibility evidence thank you! The milk I claim is used for the children for their mid morning and mid afternoon drink/snack breaks and any left over i send home with Parents as the children's entitlement.

I think the cost has grown with the growth of the scheme management companies who encourage more take up. I never got round to claiming until i signed up with one of them as i never had the time to keep receipts, do claim etc. I would prefer to have flexibility to buy healthy products all the children could have, such as dairy free items but the regualtions do not allow this.

dobby2001. I thought I made it clear that I suspected that both day nurseries and childminders were guilty that the milk did not always reach the child. Other posts from people who actually work in day nurseries have backed up my point.

You suggested that childminders and other early years staff were acting illegaly. I think I am entitled to feel annoyed at such a statement . Whilst as I have said myself, there may be more milk than is used, that is differant to the milk being deliberatly withheld from the children it was intended for.

At the school I work in the milk we get often ends up in the staffroom. This is because it is often delivered on days when the children are not in Nursery (staggered entry, INSET days, etc), and because often the children do not drink it.
This is why I have drunk some of it in the past when it's there - it would only be thrown away otherwise. It is really watery. On the carton it says it is semi-skimmed, but it definitely doesn't taste like that. When added to a hot drink, it appears more like skimmed milk. I am sure it can't be, why would anyone give skimmed milk to an under 5? But there is definitely something funny about it.
Sometimes when there is loads left over I take a whole class set for my older KS1 class. (I must stress, I only do this when I know it will be thrown away otherwise) If they are all sat down they mostly drink the whole carton (say whilst reading a story or having golden time), but if they are offered it on the way out to play, or whilst doing another activity, probably half of them refuse it.
I also think the appeal of a carton of milk is totally lost as soon as it becomes warm. Yuck. I only give it to my class rarely, but when I do, it is always straight out of the fridge. Aside from anything else, young children can't always recognise when milk is sour. Surely quite a health risk?

"that is differant to the milk being deliberatly withheld from the children it was intended for."

It is childcare in general. The maximum amount of milk is ordered because its free. The staff know perfectly well that many children will not drink it. They must know that far more milk is being ordered than the children themselves will ever drink.

To describe it as deliberate withholding of the milk would be unfair, however it is wastage caused by lack of accountablity in the system. It is similar to elderly patients who order repeat prescriptions they don't need. When something is free no one can be arsed to track waste. Actually I think its better the milk is drunk by someone than thrown away.

Certainly childcare providers do not advertise that give free milk to children. Infact some childcare providers charge for snacks or meals.

My parents know the milk is free, I told them when we first started to get it.
As I mentioned in my original post, in the case of childminders - and i think it is important to make the distinction Reallytired as bigger nurseries etc have differant ordering process and have differant things offered them than a single chldminder doing the ordering just for the max 3 under 5 children a day that attend their setting The companies such as Scotts Milk and CoolMilk have been guilty of always providing the maximum amount claimable irrespective of wether the children are there - Many childminders have complained to them about this in the past.

I think the system is antiquated and needs a shake up - but i think milk wastage is a side issue and in a large childcare provision, not a small childminders setting, one that efficient administration could well sort out quickly. - they would sort it quick enough if the milk was paid for i am sure.

"e companies such as Scotts Milk and CoolMilk have been guilty of always providing the maximum amount claimable irrespective of wether the children are there - Many childminders have complained to them about this in the past. "

I suspect that many childminders have just simply comsumed left over milk provided. I believe the problem of wastage happens in every type of childcare setting.

Childcare in the UK is some of the most expensive in the world. Where I live a nursery or a childminder sets you back about £50 a day. Frankly I think nurseries and childminders could easily pay for a tiny bit of milk out of their profits. If a parent can afford £50 a day for childcare then they can easily afford to pay for their own child's milk. Why does a child in childcare need milk more than a child at home?

Prehaps we should give the parents the healthy eating/ milk vouchers for their children. All children need to be fed during the holidays and at the weekends. Breastfeeding mums need a good diet.

Just wanted to point out, most childcare settings now keep the milk cold so all our memories of warm slightly rancid milk are now redundant.

I am a CM. I get 1/3 pint of organic milk for each child each day (can be claimed per session, but I have the same children all day). I get the milk in litre bottles, so I can give each child what they want. One child might drink 1/4 pint, while another drinks 1/2 pint. I inform the suppliers when I am on holiday and that I am closed for bank holidays. When I cared for a dairy intolerant child, I reduced the milk order and bought him rice milk myself. I can see how providers could over claim, or use leftovers themselves, but the milk company make it clear this is not allowed .

On the flip side, yes I do think it unfair that children who are not in childcare are not provided with free milk.

My own DD would only drink milk at pre school, never at home!

My DD is allergic to cow's milk. AFAIK at her nursery there's no "free" soya milk alternative. They do know which brand she normally has and I think they use soya milk in cooking for her but I think she only drinks water there.

reallytired youd be surprised,I worked for some time in a social services day unit where there were extreme levels of poverty - poverty that even by my standards were low the milk,food and indeed care those children received only took an edge off what they lacked at home ,obviously I take on board the point that mostly we are discussing private childcare that parents choose and pay for,however having also worked in a private day nursery with children whose parents clearly had money and education some of those children were also 'lacking' in basic things,money isnt a key to knowledge.

Childcare is expensive and I understand why you may suggest the care provider should/could provide the milk for the children throughout the day - the blunt fact is many wouldnt-its all about the mighty £ (not really including childminders in this as the childminders I know earn little in comparison and I havent worked with a childminder).

nickseasterchick, a social sevices day unit is governant funded. They definately should get free fruit/veg and milk.

I feel that free milk in the under threes needs to be targetted for carefully. Childminders cannot claim free milk for their own children. Surely that is unfair.

Providing free fruit or milk in a school setting is not about alievating poverty its about introducing a good rounded diet.

I was trying to compare the children that attend a day unit and a private nursery, theres not always that much difference in relation to childrens diet,I understand its not about alleviating poverty its about a rounded diet but even children from wealthier backgrounds can have a poor diet.

One Mum I actually grew to know very well only ever had skimmed milk because the other stuff was full of fat her dc positively gulped down the full fat milk and there was nothing financially poor about that family.

Im afraid Im traditionalist in my view on this and think all milk should be free until a certain age.

Haven't read all the posts but it should be means tested.