Public-sector strike: does it get your support? Please vote in our Facebook poll

[HelenMumsnet]

Morning.

We'd love to know how you feel about Wednesday's public-sector strike action. Does it get your support - or not?

We've put up a little poll on our Facebook page to help us find out. Please do click and vote.

Thanks v much, MNHQ

Sweetsantababy. Believe me I wouldn't be retiring to wait to die!! What a weird thing to say! I plan to travel and live a little and have a rest, I that's what I signed up for when I trained - work like a dog but get a good pension

'I told him that the teacher had no right to pass his views on to the DCs that will be paying his pension in the future.'

You really said this to your son about his teacher? How very undermining as well as misleading - for the record teachers pensions are paid by their ex employer - suggesting that it is a free bonus paid for by the taxpayer is blatantly wrong at worst and very slanted at best.

I am also really surprised that you don't want your child to know why someone who teaches him is striking - the strike impacts your child why shouldn't he hear the reason? or do you just want them to hear your personal views?

I am also really surprised that you don't want your child to know why someone who teaches him is striking - the strike impacts your child why shouldn't he hear the reason?

Because teachers are not permitted to share their personal and political views like this, malakadoush.

Feenie if you don't want pensions professionals to think you don't unnderstand what you are talking about then you need to be more precise with your language. The 2007 valuation was only relevant in 2007 it isn't relevant now. I support the strike, I keep saying so, but the one thing that will turn me against it is teachers who keep on saying things which reveal they don't understand the issues and then getting arsey about it when this is pointed out. The government has not told the truth on the pensions issue. Neither have the unions. But I think if you are going to go on strike about it you have a responsibilit to understand the issues and do some research and not use ambiguous or misleading language when talking about the issues.

The 2007 valuation was only relevant in 2007 it isn't relevant now

And yet the Hutton report and the National Audit Office saw fit to comment on it as late as December 2010. But presumably they don't 'understand the issues' either.

It isn't my fault that that is the latest evidence to hand. I have already agreed to increase my contributions given proper evidence - I can only quote the latest information I have been given if the government refuse to provide any more.

I fail to understand why people say things like 'well my pension has dropped therefore so should theirs' 'I had a payrise once so I think they should too'

Do you apply this across your lives? - if something bad happens to you or you are wronged in some way - do you think the resolution is for the same bad/wrong thing to happen to others?

This is about principles and truth and the facts are very hard to deny. The government is tearing up its contract with its employees - once you have a supposedly democratic first world governments behaving in this way then, to me, the future looks very bleak.

For those of you in the private sector who see this as acceptable public service bashing - you need to consider the future impact this action (not the detail just the fact it is happening) will have on you and your employment rights/human rights/pension. Because be assured what the government are currently doing to the public sector is idealogy driven and will have a ripple effect across society and will change the way employers believe they will be allowed to behave to their employees.

Malak When did I tell my DC it was a free bonus. Never. Why should I not say that this will be funded out of future taxation. It will. Why should I expect history teacher to pass on their personal views to my DC. I have a right as a parent to present him with the facts about pensions.

But we don't know the exact circumstances surrounding this conversation do we - and the detail of how this alleged conversation took place are very important. For example did the children ask the teacher? if so why wouldn't he/she answer? and to be honest the answer was a simple statement of fact.

The strike impacts children - why not let people answer their questions? I think that it is incredibly healthy and sensible to let children understand what is happening in the world and to know that different people have different views.

On another point Malak the private sector do not see this as acceptable public sector bashing. This will not have any impact on the way employers behave in the private sector. My argument is that this strike is being justified on the misguided belief that this is a fight for pensions for all. It is not and I am fed up with this ideological crap that is being spouted from unions. Pensions for all. Fighting for a decent pension. The public sector will still have a decent pension even with the changes coming in. As I said in a previous post that you must have chosen to ignore. The govt should have done this differently but please get off the high horse that this is a fight for all of our human rights and making a stand for all.

I totally support the right to strike, so it has my 100% backing.

A child did not ask the teacher. The teacher chose to talk about it in a history lesson. He did not talk about it in a balanced way. He said the Government do not want to pay our pensions. Are you saying that when longevity is beyond the control of any employer, they have no right in future to change pensions and they should always be as stated in the contract. With 60 days consultation, employers can already change anything in your contract. This is part of employment law and happens all the time.

losing 'the facts' are different depending on your personal leaning, why shouldn't your DC's understand there are differences?

I think suggesting that your childs teacher was reliant on him to pay his pension - and you said it in your post, in a way that made it sound less like a contractual & legal right and more like the teacher was dependent - was wrong.

The fact that public sector pensions are paid out of GDP is not the fault of public sector workers - it is the fault of the system that successive governments have bought into.

There should have be ring fenced pension pots - where PS contributions including the employers share are paid into. These would then have produced their own returns- and even if these didn't bring the full amount required, it would stop the whole of the cost of pensions being borne by future generations.

So I think that the view your gave your child was dreadfully skewed and as a Public Sector employee I find this attitude that because the 'taxpayer' is going to have to pay my pension (see reasons above) I somehow have less of a right to it. Where as factually, I have a contractual right to it, it is mine and I have earnt it through my working life.

losing I understand your viewpoint, but I disagree with it. I personally think you are being mislead and your understanding is incomplete. But that is up to you.

Re the comment in your post about the teacher being reliant on your children for his pension - I just find that offensive if I'm honest.

Absolutely against the strikes. Public sector workers need to understand that the disproportionate benefits they have received historically are unsustainable. It is not equitable for a shrinking private sector to fund a bloated public sector to the extent that it has historically. The strikes are irresponsible and demonstrate the financial and economic naivety of those public sector workers who are involved.

losing - well if it 'happens all the time' then that's alright then. We should just roll over and let it happen.

We are reliant on our DCs paying in the future. The state pension is unfunded. We will all benefit from that. Why is that so offensive to say that my DC will be paying for future pensions? Where else is the money going to come from for the public sector pension, the remaining final salary schemes in the private sector and the State Pension.

Of course our precious children will be paying our pensions!!! We are paying the pensions of the current generation of retirees. Do you resent this? I don't. It's a mutualised system like the NHS. You pay in, you get something out at a later date. Who are these people twittering about their little darlings paying the pensions of their teachers, and giving them an overblown sense of importance? Their very teachers, doctors and nurses are among those paying tax that goes to paying for the schools, hospitals, roads, sanitation etc that even our little darlings use.

What is the matter with people that they no longer understand mutualisation? Would you like to get out there with a little trowel every time you need a crap? Or wade through mud whenever you want to to go to town because no-one has funded a road? Most of that infrastructure was paid for by our poor dear frail dead great great great great grandparents. Should we all feel guilty because we can't individually pay for our own roads now??

I don't support the strikes.
Dh and I would happily accept there jobs without a pension. Try being unemployed.

malak Final salary private sector pensions were almost entirely killed off after the PA 96 and the introduction of the MFR, and the subsequent introduction of FRS 17. The schemes that remained (generally closed to new entrants and with those under 50 kicked out) were then subjected to Gordon Brown's ACT raid.

It all happened to us more than 10 years ago. :(

This doesn't make what is happening now right (although there needs to be some realism as there will need to be more employee contributions, that's how pensions work).

And as for the whingers saying their children shouldn't have things explained to them at school- do you honestly think that the 6 hours a day your child and their teacher spend in each others' company should be entirely about delivering the 3Rs and that no human interaction should take place at all?

I can assure you that children do not flourish academically like that. There is nothing children like more than insights into their teachers' lives. It gives them a human dimension and means that the messages they are trying to get across (ie the 3Rs) are more likely to be accepted. Pity those poor curriculum deliverers who do just that, and the teachers whose pupils' parents expect them only to deliver the curriculum. No wonder so many people think teachers are expendable. May as well stick the kids in front of a computer if that's all you're expecting from your child's teacher!

Duchesse I do not resent my DCs having to pay for pensions as long as it is proportionate. If people are living longer as they are then it is also acceptable that there is some mutual sharing of the cost and that at some point the terms of pensions can be changed. Pensions are not static they change with inflation and have changed with longevity, hence the State Pension going to 67 for all of us as announced yesterday. The State 2nd Pension has changed completely over the last two years and has been reduced. When the birth rate is dropping and longevity increasing pure mathematics would indicate that changes to the State Pension and contractual pensions paid for from future generations need to be reviewed to make them manageable in the longer term. To keep banging on about a contractual entitlement that might have been made 20 years ago at a time when the actuarial views of longevity was completely different is not justified. As I have always said the Govt has not acted appropriately in terms of not doing the 2010 valuation and being non-transparent with figures but surely a contractual entitlement that has a big impact for future generations should be allowed to be changed and this is backed up by employment law.

Perhaps you are right Duchesse oh sorry that is happening more and more in our schools!

I am an ex public service worker, i chose to leave due to poor working conditions and knowing that i would be better off on a day to day basis both in terms of money and the hours that i would see my children for. Working as a midwife on shifts meant that weeks would pass whereby i would only see my children sleeping or getting them ready for school. Night shifts would mean them staying with my parents due to no other childcare avlaiable from 6am to 8am.
I do not support the strikes.
What i can;t help feeling when i read the arguments about teachers, nurses, fire, etc being underpaid, is that no they arent underpaid. The UK has unfeasibly high living expenses, this is what needs to be addresses rather than keep arguing for increased pay.
I am in the Thames Valley and a mortgage is beyond my reach, Renting is astronomical £950 for a very small three bed semi. Weekly food shop going up and up, gas and electric increasing. WE all are feeling the pinch and I agree something needs to be done within the UK to ensure a better future for all. But alienating people who are on lower salaries than public sector workers or perhaps even just perceived to be better off wrt to perks, is not helping the situation. There is already so much resentment in this country towards each other that something really needs to be done. Although I am at a loss as to what can be done.

Duchesse is your DC3 school on strike today? I'm guessing the college is although I'm avoiding Queen Street at the moment due to the interminable omnipresent road works......

Unfunded schemes were an absolutely terrible terrible idea, but in the early days of the last century, when the state pension was first introduced, what else could they do? Tell the voters that they woukd start taking contributions from everyone right now but only start paying out in 40 years? Same with the teachers' scheme, I suppose, although they could and should have done something about this 20 or 30 years ago - when I started training in 1989 the timebomb of the unfunded pensions was already being discussed a lot. Thatch, Major, Blair - they could have all done something but chose to do nothing. Because of political expediency. Of course, the spectre of the uk intended consequences of PA 96 would have given them pause- AIUI nobody expected the wholesale closing down of final salary schemes as a result of the changes it bought in. :(