Public-sector strike: does it get your support? Please vote in our Facebook poll

[HelenMumsnet]

Morning.

We'd love to know how you feel about Wednesday's public-sector strike action. Does it get your support - or not?

We've put up a little poll on our Facebook page to help us find out. Please do click and vote.

Thanks v much, MNHQ

Rocks I am pretty much waiting to find out what the catch is. Not only do I work no unpaid overtime, I also get a pension, enhanced sick pay benefits and enhanced maternity benefits.

I don't support it.

Why should I (as a tx payer) contribute 14% to a pension for someone else, who only contributes 6%. I would love all the public sector workers to contribute to my pension, but can't see that happening.

Never mind all the other perks that come with working in the public sector - better maternity pay/rights, flexi-time, paid days off when your kids are ill, sick pay, long holidays etc. I used to work in the private sector and got all these things, but worked with people who sometimes wouldn't survivie in the 'real, commercial' world. I work in the private sector now and far prefer it. If I work hard, I get rewarded, if I don't work hard I get sacked. In the public sector if you work hard, you get rewarded, if you don't work hard, you get rewarded.

Some people need a reality check.

Thanks panicmode! I just get so tired of hearing the same lines about blaming the bankers and the MPs when the problem is completely separate, however nice it would be to have nice 'baddies' to pin it onto.

Am giving up now as I have watched similar threads and know that no one ever changes their views on them.

I find the whole thing so so sad for all of us. I hope that, if this carries on, those of us who are just trying to get on with the business of recognising that our country is undergoing a painful rebalancing and adjusting our lives and expectations accordingly will find a way of pulling together to minimise the disruption caused by those who are in denial about this, and what it means for us all.

It is sad that it has come to what feels like a battle but this is what the unions wanted so it was inevitable really.

No worries Dorasbackpack - I too hesitated before posting - it always ends the same way as the private/state education debate (ie a Mexican standoff!).

I am extremely worried by the legacy of the baby boomers - both for us, and for our children. It's going to get a LOT worse before it gets any better - pensions are just the tip of the iceberg I think.

What I find heartening is even the headteacher praised by Cameron for keeping her school open for the last strike is going on strike. This must be the first strike since the match girls where the majority of those taking part are female, and mostly non-Spartists. When even dyed in the wool tories vote to strike you can tell how wrong this unelected government is.

Bygove said yesterday that the unions are "spoiling for a fight". Au contraire. Since this was announced by the Condems the unions have been pushing for negotiations which were resisted until strike ballot papers were sent out. Only then did they bleat about striking whilst negotiations were taking place.

To any of you deluded enough to think the extra money raised is going into the pension pot then this might shed some light onto exactly where it's going:-

"The Treasury accepts that the contribution increase is designed to help reduce the deficit, rather than improve the longterm viability of the pensions system. It has said it will raise £2.8bn from the policy. The money will not go directly into reducing the future costs of public sector pensions, but paying down the deficit. In that sense this is a political decision to make public sector pensions contribute more in this way to the deficit reduction programme. It's fair to argue ? as the unions are ? that this is an additional tax on state employees. All governments make decisions to target savings or taxes that affect different groups for example smokers via tobacco taxes, parents via childcare cuts or commuters via rail fares."

This is yet another example of the poor paying for the rich. Public sector workers are rightly outraged that the extra 50% they are being forced to pay will not go towards their pensions but to get ShineyDave and his oily sidekick Gideon out of trouble. Isn't it funny that the size of the deficit is roughly the amount spent on bailing the banks out?

This is the same party that allowed corporations to stop paying into their pension plans in the '80s, leading to many pensioners losing out. Wonder why so many companies can't fund "final salary" pensions?

"Why should I (as a tx payer) contribute 14% to a pension for someone else, who only contributes 6%. I would love all the public sector workers to contribute to my pension, but can't see that happening."

But actually, isn't it true that very many private sector workers don't contribute to any pension at all, and that with this redistribution, public sector workers' tax is just as likely to be paying the pensions of these workers as your pay is likely to pay theirs? Why does your pay contribute to their pensions, when they are all paying tax too?

I don't have a problem with pensions being radically overhauled, actually.. but I think it is unfair to ask people who have worked in particular positions for years, perhaps sometimes staying in that job purely because pensions were an incentive, who have this ripped off them, say, 5-10 years before retirement. There are many more fair and transparent ways of approaching this problem.

Some jobs require more energy than others. I, for one, don't want to see e.g. young children being taught or fires being fought by people hitting 70 who are working unwillingly because of fear of poverty. Dh is an engineer and works with some people who come in after retirement to do some extra hours, and they make a fantastic contribution (one man nearly 67) but it is voluntary and they are doing it because they love and have passion for the job, not because they are desperate. They can also sit down all day! I don't see how forcing rather than encouraging people to work well into their late 60's and approaching 70 will work in some public sector jobs, and I think it could be dangerous.

I have only been working 6 years, I haven't paid much in, I have time to make alternative arrangements. Taking it away from people who don't have this opportunity, who are due to retire in the next ten years, seems very very wrong and I think it was wrong this was done in private sector roles.

That's what I don't understand. As Lord Hutton put it, the race shouldn't be to the bottom. Reducing pensions, in general, won't benefit any private sector workers. The expectation will be that the annual worth of a pension (which in private and public pensions averages only about 8.5K at present) will go down across the board and more elderly people will have to work long beyond their health sell-by date in some cases whike finding themselves increasingly impoverished. How is that in anyone's interest, public/private sector animosity aside?

Hedleylemarr I know exactly why most private sector final salary schemes were closed. They were closed because of the double whammy of PA96 which introduced the MFR (a Maxwell reaction) and FRS17. Brown's ACT raid didn't help but the writing was already on the wall by then.

There is so much rubbish written about pensions in these strike threads, it's very depressing. Both the government and the unions seem to see a vested interest in peddling half truths and misinformation about the pension situation. Both sides should be ashamed of themselves.

The whole country is totally screwed! The government borrows £2000 for everyone in this country but then gives millions of pounds in aid to countries with a faster growing economy than us.

Our taxes are there to pay for the people of this country. Whilst it is great to give to charity and I'm glad that people do so I don't see why working people, whether in the private or public sector should not receive a fair pension in old age.

The government should really support a radical overhaul of pensions and support people to save for their old age. With care costs at £800+ per week we need to do that. There is little point in scrimping on pensions as we all will have to pay other people's care if they can't.

No - I don't support. I've worked in private and public sector and can see it from both sides but i think the public sector is bloated, inefficient and has been a drain on the economy for far too long. I think we all need to make sacrifices to get back on track.

Totally support the strike.

The majority of public service workers are on between 14-21,000 a year. Pay cuts and freezes for last 3 years and nothing changing in future.

Lots do manual and/or shift work and won't "benefit" from living longer to draw a pension at all, let alone draw it for longer.

These pensions were reviewed and adjusted to take into account longevity around 5 years ago (for some 10 years ago depending on which scheme you are in) and are affordable and sustainable

Society wants good healthcare, well educated children, secure borders, benefits paid on time, safe and hygienic work practices (restaurants/shops/toys etc) but does not want to pay anyone to ensure these things happen.

As for "Why should I (as a tx payer) contribute 14% to a pension for someone else, who only contributes 6%. I would love all the public sector workers to contribute to my pension, but can't see that happening." Shall I knock 6p in the £ (or whatever the employers contribution to private sector pensions is) off a tin of beans in Tesco, off my solicitors bill, off my builders quote because I don't want to contribute to their pensions? All employers contributions come out of the money the employers have, public servants employers money comes direct from the tax payer, private sector comes from their profits - who creates those profits - everyone who uses the goods and services.

It should not be a "race to the bottom" as in my pensions crap so yours should be too - and that was not some loony left Trade Union leaders quote, that was Lord Hutton in the pensions review paper.

100% support from self and DP (and ex husband who doesn't agree with me often!)

I will be striking.I am a public sector worker and have also worked in the private sector. I striked in the 80's with the civil service and with the NHS.Those were the days that they would practically call a strike if there was no soft loo paper. :o

However I left and went to the private sector where I got more money and bonuses. I worked for national companies wher eI could earn a fortune selling insurance and mortgages.

I came back to the public sector because of the job I always wanted to do. Yep we get flexi and maternity rights,etc,but EVERY employee has the right to ask for a work life balance etc. Private sector employers just (mostly) don't advertise the fact.

Frontline public sector workers don't get bonuses, Company Xmas parties, and we all pay for our own coffee at meetings.No training courses in fancy hotels ,all expenses paid.Flights to different parts of the country etc.

I came back to the LA because it was my dream job, and I accepted that it wasn't going to be soo cushy as I had before. I get threats of physical and verbal assault by member of the public. I deal with members of the public that most of you would go out your way to avoid.The flotsam and jetsam of society. I love my job.

No perks,but a decent pension and a security of job.Well so I thought. The government are cutting the budgets and Local Authorities are overstretched with lack of resources. This is having an affect on the people we are trying to help.

So I am not just striking cos of my pension, I am striking as a fingers up to "Call me Dave" that you cannot keep cutting essential services,the police and the NHS to prop up the flaming banks.

For those who say it isn't about the banks-well you explain why the bankers are still getting bonuses and profit share (I am taking about the banks that WE own), without paying US the tax payer back, and yet your Granny's care is getting cut

‎"The question is not whether we have a deficit, but who pays? Rather than tackle corporate tax avoidance, this government has announced a further £25bn in tax breaks to big business" Mark Serwotka on the strike.

So we are all in it together?

Dave Prentis from Unison "It is a national scandal that the country?s highest earners get tax breaks worth £10bn every year on their pensions contributions. This tax giveaway, to the top 1% of earners on more than £150,000 a year, is worth more than three times what the government is trying to raise by taxing public sector workers? pensions. This is even worse when you consider that top bosses in the UK have average pensions worth 34 times more than the average public sector pension."

Chutneyandcheese I agree with the need for better efficiency, it makes my blood boil seeing the waste of money in the council, in my very limited experience, procurement is a scandal, councils get charged 3x the price of ordinary items available on the high street by a private sector company that is on an approved list of companies - it is fraud.

Susanne

Re the banks: yes it is crap that they are paying bonuses but if the state owned banks can't operate like the others then they will be seen as paper banks and no one will engage with them or lend them money etc. and they will go under. at that point we will have a real problem. At which point worrying about paying an extra 30 pounds a months into a guaranteed final salary pension will seem like the least of everyone's problems.

We are in hock to the markets,like it or not, so they call the shots now.

And for those who keep talking about a race to the bottom- we are at the bottom on pensions, it is just that those with nothing are left paying out to those who have something. Private sector workers with no pensions are the most screwed of all and, in response to earlier posters, no one will be funding them, Those days are over, that is just the reality unless we can find a way to get the economy moving.

No support. (No FB)

Dora & Panic

You just saved me wasting my time making my full contribution to this thread .

Instead I'm going to attempt the challenge of blaming the bankers .

1. The funding of public sector pensions is not a new issue. It pre-dates even the last government.

1. As life expendancy increases, so does the (often completely unfunded) pensions liability on future generations of tax payers and public sector workers.

1. The longer this issue is left, the worse it will get.

1. Instead of addressing this problem, the last government, exacerbated it by increasing the number of people employed in the public sector and increasing public sector salaries (they are now at a level roughly equal to the private sector).

1. One of the reasons the Labour government were able to achieve point 4. was the large tax revenue paid by the UK financial sector. The banking sector's tax payments possibly also gave the last government a false sense of security regarding future public sector funding.

So yes - it was kinda the bankers fault .

Don't support and pleased that DD's teachers aren't striking tomorrow.

I work in private sector and my company doesn't contribute towards my pension. Also not had a pay increase for the last 10 years. We've been making people redundant and it would be taking the mickey if I - as a Director - took pay increase or added benefits.

Support it!

No i dont support the strike... I appreciate things are hard in the public sector but thats only a reflection of how hard things are everywhere. Public sector cant be excluded from feeling the full brunt of the pain. In the private secrtor we've had pay freezes, pensions reduced and job insecurity for ages as well, but thats the times we live in. And I really dont accept that public sector wages are universally lower than private sector. Of my 10 closest freinds and their DH's 5 of the 6 highest paid are public sector... Police, teachers and council worker. Sure, they'll be very low paid jobs as well just as there are low paid jobs in the private sector. I'm on mat leave and have had to apply for my job for the second time in a year, and this wont be the last job cuts, DH is desperately trying to find full time work and he'll keep looking til he finds it - in the meantime he's doing every temp minimum wage job he can get. So no, sorry I dont agree with your strike over pensions, when you'll be getting something that is a damn sight better than a lot of workers.

The strike is a massive pain in the neck and will achieve nothing

"we are all in this together" as in the likes of ordinary people in both sectors taking all the crap while fat cat execs see their bonuses etc increase and MPs see their pensions protected.
As a tax payer I'd rather pay an £8k pension to a teacher than a £100k+ one to an MP.

As for those in the private sector saying they see salary freezes and loss of perks (no biscuits in meetings) too etc it's worth pointing out that in the public sector we never had those perks to take away in the first place.
And while life was good I didn't see any whinging from the private sector about public sector pensions. Now life is harder suddenly it's all our fault...I don't think so.

Never had overtime paid
Never got hours back which I've worked over
Never had biscuits/tea/coffe in meetings - we always had to buy our own milk.
Never had private health insurance]
Never got vouchers for lunch or travel

I appreciate that in recent times many in the private sector don't get these either but some of us have NEVER had them. What we DID have was a better pension to recognise this - now times are bad they want to take even that away too.

I am taking the kids to see Arthur Christmas, so I am pleased with the "free" day off school

But the MPs don't get 100k as they earn 65k and many of them don't do it for more than 2 terms so 10 years ish. And there are only a few hundred of them rather than the millions of public sector workers. I wish that the unions would at least be honest enough to explain how the two kinds of pensions actually work. This happened in the 80s didn't it when loads of people contracted out only to find their private pension was worth shit? Every time someone says 'I will leave the scheme cos I can't afford another £x' I want to sob into my private sector, bought with my own money, coffee. As I am in fact doing now in despair at the complete ignorance about how pensions and economics work. And I am loving the equation of biscuits in meetings, which in my experience, is genuinely a myth, with a final salary pension!

I work in private sector but support it 100%.

We (in the private sector) always have worse benefits than the public BUT if theirs get worse then ours gets even lower.