Speaking at Unicef conference on "Mumsnet and feeding: What are women talking about?" Help needed:)

[carriemumsnet]

I'm giving a talk at the UNICEF UK Baby Friendly Initiative Annual Conference next week in Liverpool and could do with some help. The title is "Mumsnet and feeding: What are women talking about?" and I want to give examples of best and worst practice.

I don't want it to turn into a 'them and us' experience and be over critical, but at the same time I want to give an honest reflection of people's experiences of deciding whether to breast or bottle feed, trying to carry on breastfeeding, starting feeding, weaning etc - and a highlight what helped you, what worked, what we can encourage and how we can work together with health professionals - as well as give examples of worst practice, and case studies of what absolutely doesn't work and needs to be addressed.

If there's anything else you'd like me to say in addition to this, please feel free to post it here. I can't guarantee I'll include everything, but it's always useful to have anecdotes and experiences for the Q and A session!

If anyone's attending the conference - do come and say hello - it'll be good to see a (hopefully) friendly face:)

Totally agree about normalising breastfeeding, it's time some of the "popular" tv programmes like EastEnders don't show breastfeeding as a normal, everyday thing - eg someone breastfeeding their baby (or child) in a scene which isn't about the feeding, it's just going on. Don't know how this can happen though - how can pressure be put on the producers? I am fairly sure that if everyone grew up seeing others breastfeeding as the norm, a lot more people would at least give it a go.

Also, try and find out where the support is available before you have the baby. It's so hard to go out and get help after the baby comes, but if you are already familiar with support groups etc then it makes it a lot easier. Support is so essential - I had terrible problems until I got one-on-one help from a breastfeeding specialist. Oh and the debate about pain - I am on the side of saying it can be painful but if it is extremely painful (eg, like me, bleeding nipples etc) then you probably need some help with positioning, latch etc.

Finally, don't think it's going to be easier the 2nd time round. I had just as many problems, if not more, with my 2nd dd.

I think that women not believing they are making enough milk is a common myth and one that needs to be ironed out.

As a brestfeeding peer supporter, we're taught that contrary to belief, very few women cannot physically make enough milk and that because of problems with latch and attachment, babies are not efficiently drawing the milk from the breast and this, in turn, can mean the breasts are not being triggered to make more milk.

Also, the introduction of formula feeds to 'help the baby sleep' , as often suggested by GPs (one couple literally told me last week that their GP told them this) can be really unhelpful when a new mum is trying to establish feeding and the very point of feeding on demand, is just that.

The tech bit of how breastmilk is made and drawn from the breast is, imo, one fo the most important things a mum can be told (in easy terms) when pregnant. Knowing how it works, means they're better prepared for probs and have moer of an idea of how to carry on feeding and ironing out any problems before giving up, thinking they aren't producing enough milk.

Also - that the milk is drained from the breasts and then they are 'empty'. They are never empty; it's just that as more is taken, the fattier milk is harder to squeeze out, often giving the mother the feeling that her breasts are empty, when they're not. By letting the baby feed for as long as he/she wants at one breast, will mean they are getting the rich, filling milk.

Having BF two boys to self weening at 3, I would like Health profs. to be better informed and take off their judgy pants. I have repeated been told that I should stop BFing and that I shouldn't co-sleep, and if I didn't know the facts, this could have been really damaging. I have never had a positive comment on extended BFing from a medical professional, (why do they call it that, even the term implies its not normal)?
They are very opinionated, with nothing to back it up. Its wrong and unhelpful. It also goes against WHO advise, which is surely what they should work to? Rant over.... sorry...... this has been a big deal for me to point where at times I have lied about it so as not to take the lecture that always comes from medical professionals..... (Interesting when they can see and comment on how lovely my boys are)?! Rant really over now..... Im stopping and moving away from the keyboard........sorry.

I would LOVE it if UNICEF put out a statement clarifying that the recommendation is to feed to two years and beyond if desired. Not just for developing countries with sanitation problems, but here in the UK. Nobody seems to believe that this applies to the UK. It needs to be shouted out that feeding older babies has real, tangible benefits, is normal not freaky, and needs to be supported and encouraged.

Perhaps GPs, HVs, HCPs and generally Uncle Tom Cobley and all would stop putting pressure on mothers to give up this 'unnecessary' practice at the drop of a hat if they understood they should be trying to encourage it, not stop it.

It makes me really sad to think that most people would probably think I was weird and embarrassing if they knew I was still feeding my 21 month old.

X -post rather adds weight to our point, greengoose!

verylittle you are right. I too was embarassed to be feeding my LO until he was 21 months. Even from my own family and DH, the stress I was put under to stop was horrendous.

for me it would have been very useful if someone had talked to me about the reality of breast feeding. The only discussion was 'are you going to BF' and me saying 'yes'.

I had no idea about the reality of cracked nipples, bad latch, mastitis, feeding around the clock for months and months and the hormonal effect of it. I would have been far more prepared had someone properly discussed all of those issues when I was pregnant. It wouldn't have put me off since all my family are very pro BF, but it might have prepared me a bit better.

As it was my experience was pretty awful the first time.

Agreed that HCP need proper breastfeeding training including GPs, nurses etc.

GPs also seem to know absolutely nothing about taking medication whilst breastfeeding and tend to err massively on the side of caution. There needs to be better sources of advice about breastfeeding and different meds, and GPs need to know where to refer to get this info.

I stopped BFing DD when she was 1 because I was prescribed medication which my GP told me I couldn't take whilst bfing. I later found out it would have been ok to take whilst bfing...... :(

I had a terrible time bf ds1. couldn't get it right but didn't know to ask for help. I thought if i bf in front of doctor hen he came round for a check he would notice and tell me what I was doing wrong!!! same in mother and baby groups! how dumb was I??? stuck it out for 1 year though, as they get bigger it got alot easier, but I still worry about bonding damage done when I was sobbing at every early feed and putting off feeding him cos it hurt so much.
bf ds2 and ds3 was easy and great!! I got a few good books read them alot and got it right :) ds3 I happily fed until 2.5 years :)

the bit of advice I got first time round from well known baby book of 'first feed baby for 10 min on each side' still makes me want to scream at tv every time i hear it!! NOT HELPFUL

I am speaking as a mother who had two very bad breastfeeding experiences, despite being positive and keen at the outset.

My eldest was hungry, and fed constantly day and night. After a bad labour and delivery, I was completely exhausted, to the point where I could not face picking my baby up and cried non stop for 3 days. I switched to formula with full support of GP, midwife and Health Visitors. Years later, my HV said they were convinced I was on the edge of a full PN breakdown.

With my second, I breastfed for 7 months, out of guilt. I had an overactive thyroid, undiagnosed for 5 months, mastitis three times, I had nightmares and flashbacks everytime I fed and hated every single feed.

I guess I just want to say that it is harder for some mothers than others and, whilst I appreciate all of the research etc, I am convinced it was not right for me.

sittinginthesunmum When I was struggling with BFing the first time around my tutor, a very well respected author and psychoanalyst, (who I was quite scared of) told me that what babies require most in life is happy mothers, and they really dont give much of a jot where the milk comes from as long as they have this, made me feel much better (I managed to keep feeding, but it was really hard for a while)!!

I BF DS for an extended time and had dentist tell me that it was damaging his teeth "breast-milk is very sweet you know" - made me feel it might be one reason he needed baby teeth out under GA. But actually I'm sure it was much more to do with other things such as sugary drinks and too many biscuits at toddler group. Also practitioner at Children's Centre told me I couldn't be doing it for DSs benefit (implying I was doing it for my own slightly weird reasons ? WTF ! )
So, maybe there could be legislation that all HCPs etc. have to be positive or at least not negative about BFing irrespective of their own ill-informed views ?
Could that do any good ??

I had a homebirth - and felt so alone in terms of breastfeeding support. I had a very sleepy baby who couldn't latch onto the breast, and although i saw midwives - none of them could help.

on day three I finally got some milk into DD as Ivwent to a breastfeeding support group at my sure start where a hv advised nipple shields.

dd has only just latched onto my actual breast at 16 weeks old, and i went to several support groups after the initial one. everyone kept saying 'she's still so young', as if that was an excuse for not being able to eat?

Where are the actual trained breastfeeding advisors, and how can they be accessed? All I could get hold of was well meaning HVs and midwives who didn't know how to help (in fact - i called the post natal ward for advice, as dd hadnt eaten for 24 hours - and the midwife said, 'you could always use formula')

I think the promotion 'breast is best' is a good idea, but the support isn't there.

oh - i agree that the nhs shy away from the reality of breastfeeding - tell us like it is please! I would have still fed my baby but would have liked to know that constant feeding is normal.

That's true MotherPanda

I think one difficulty I did have was not being prepared for how often and for how long DD and later DS would want to be BFing.

Feel like HCP's understanding of BFing is in it's infancy really

god yes, hour long feeds - every hour and a half for the first few weeks (once she got the hang of this eating malark). I had no idea when one feed ended and the other began!

I had read that babies feed every 3 hours...

i would like to 'second' the tongue tie comments. had successfully bf my first two babies and thought it would be all plain sailing for no 3 and his wind problem was dreadful, which was caused by tongue tie. finally got it cut at 7 months but i had to beg at this point as they couldnt understand why i was still feeding at this stage

I think the thing that has really struck me is that in the space of 1-2 generations the marketing of formula has meant that the population has been convinced that breastfeeding is somehow not as good as formula. The number of threads we see of grandparents being genuinely concerned for the babies wellbeing because "breastmilk just isn't enough' and "formula is all scientific you know" as well as the attitudes I met with really shocked me.

If we want to promote breastfeeding I think we need the kind of marketing campaigns that were used AGAINST breastfeeding in the 70's, and the same sort of money and marketing skill behind it.

agree it does hurt rather a lot at first, but eases off.
also need more info what to do if a health issue occurs - recognising early signs of mastitis DOCTORS too 2 different docs have misdiagnosed and refused to prescribe antibiotics to 2 separate friends of mine who both went on to develop full mastitis and subsequently gave up feeding.

I had absolutely crap advice given to me about feeding by a midwife in Wythenshawe hosp,

MW - looking sideways at me desperately trying to latch on dd 'By the way NEVER, EVER let the baby drain the breast.

Me (worried) OK. What does that feel like? how will I know?

MW - I don't know.

fecking eejit.

If you've never fed yourself keep your damn mouth shut ffs.

I fed dd for 12months, and ds for 7 mths, till they self weaned. Never would have known how to sterilise or assemble a bottle, that factor kept me feeding through my pain barrier. Both my Mum and MIL bf 3 babies, they were my best support.
@4mths My dd bit me and I got an infected nipple
that was agonising and terrifying, yet was easily sorted out.
I couldve done with a clear leaflet with colour pictures of healthy/ not healthy nipples, and latches from different positions, more accurate descriptions of symptoms of what to look out for, and more reassurance that antibiotics are quick and easy - and you can feed a baby off one side for a while if you have to.
you just feel so terrifyingly alone, in charge of baby's welfare/weight when you bf. esp with PFB, I was scared of weighings.

Very glad I kept it going though, it's free, good for my health and baby's, and was lovely once it was pain-free, after 6weeks with dd and after 1 week with ds, who was a far easier latcher

ds was like clockwork, 20 min feed every 1 1/2 hours day and night

you do lose will to live at times, esp at 3am
might as well just stay up then...