MNHQ .. Can we talk about disability bashing?

[Brownsugarshortbread]

Over the years i have posted on and enjoyed MN.
Sadly there seems to be a growing culture of it being okay to have a go at disabilities, those who claim DLA and those who's children have 'invisable' disabilities such as ADHD and ADD.
The terms 'freak' and 'scrounger' have been batted around and comments from some posters IMO certainly boarder on harrassment and discrimination.

When certain posts or posters have been reported, some have been removed, yet a lot haven't.

And while I agree with free speech, these types of comment or reaction to these comments, are not an education for those bigoted posters. Nor do those whose lives are touched by disability wish to be used to educate those posters.

Disability Harassment

is unwanted behaviour based on disability,
impairment or additional need. Such behaviour may include comments that are patronising or objectionable to the recipient or which creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive environment for people with disabilities. Disability harassment includes inappropriate reference to disability, unwelcome discussion of the impact of disability, refusal to work with and exclusion of people with disabilities from social events or meetings.

I don'see why it should be down to me or us to hide threads or posters, mn should have zero tolerance(not low) and as soon as they are reported they should be gone, no point imo just zapping words, if you take spastic out of that thread title the op won't make sense, not that it did anyway, but you know what I mean, you would get people guessing and the trolls and bigots would get even more attention.
the spastic thread should have gone, it served no purpose.

I agree it should have gone as soon as it was reported but it did serve a purpose Shoesy, it was designed to cause uproar, which it did.

I hope that the OP is very pleased with her achievement.

i disagree, i think it was marginal for a while and the poster has to be given the benefit of the doubt.

And yet again MNHQ will not be commenting further to justify their ignorance.

"Mumsnet. By parents, for parents, unless your child has a disability and then we're not particularly interested"

I'm not buying that she didn't know it would cause offence.

Are you being forced to use Mumsnet?
If the site ( or any other site/club/school/group ) isn't meeting your exact standards you are free to look for alternatives - (although ime nowhere is utopia) . I think HQ get it right in the vast majority of cases. The success of mn must surely prove that.

Why SHOULD we find somewhere else?
We didn't always have kids with additional needs. Why should we move along nicely now that we do?

Maybe they get it right to the majority.... I'm not saying for one moment that us parents with kids with SN are the majority, are you?

Every single person on Mumsnet is an individual with individual needs and thoughts - we all draw the line in slightly different places - it's almost impossible to please everyone -

Not impossible to moderate comment that falls foul of an act of law though, surely?

No one is forced to use mumsnet. And is isn't about meeting e xact standards, it's the fact that there are/ have been posts that break equality laws. This is a minority of posters who really could and ought to be dealt with.
But if the attitude of " if you don't like it go away" shows exactly why so many people have and what we are up against.
MN has lost some very well informed long standing posters who have a lot of good advice to be able to share. More who feel that they daren't come off the SN section.

We don't go looking for disabilist threads in order to become offended, it is naturally a part of our lives that we hold an interest in, so read and see if there is anything we can learn from or constructively add to. And then you find the thread isn't what you thought.

The majority would like to be able to post wherever without fear of ridicule and offensive posts.

Would it work if HQ posted a warning on those threads? Rather than to the poster ? That way people would see the warning, see HQ are aware.. But it would disrupt what could turn out to be a reasonable thread.

And I like the strike idea.

Brownsugar

Exactly. Maybe a very visible warning would work?

I think both a post on the thread (which then flags up to everyone that it is now OTW, rather than it being hidden, as currently) and a reminder to the poster - that way no one can continue hassling and protest "I didn't know you meant me!"

Primal: no, MNHQ cannot please everyone all of the time. But if they really have no interest in trying to help vulnerable posters, then they should say it out and loud. then the (few) SN posters left who feel comfortable posting (both about their children/daily ives and on main boards) can make their decision on what to do.

but standing in the middle and hand-wringing and saying "oh, but we want to help, but we cannot see what we can do about it" is not constructive.

make some rules - then people know where they are

(and the current rules aren't working - as has been shown, time and again. not least because there has been a bizarre discrepancy between racist/homophobic language and disablist language (viz: low/zero tolerance))

if you want a site where it is a free for all, and you don't care who gets hurt - well, nice for you.

all this thread is asking for is that actually, some posters are asked to think a little more, and have a little more consideration. not really a lot to ask for, imo.

That's not what I'm saying at all - I'd ban quite a few words but what you'd end up with then is netmums, and 1000's of people would leave.
It's a difficult balance to get right.

'Every single person on Mumsnet is an individual with individual needs and thoughts - we all draw the line in slightly different places - it's almost impossible to please everyone -'

Right, in which case one should ascribe to the highest possible level of standard.

As for if you don't like MN a reverse argument would surely be to simply blow a raspberry point out i;ve been here since ds2 (aged 10) was born and that many SN users are long termers; why should the oldies shift rather than the newbies (wide definition of newbie)?

But don't think that's the answer. I think high standartds of sensitivity given that one knows one is posting on a site used by disabled people and carers is always right.

There are sites when people can post fuckwittery, they welcome new members with open arms. Ther are sites that have established SN sections and advertise as for parents. The distinction is clear.

In my RL I often advise parents where to seek support and have advised so many to head here. I just would not do that any more for fear of what I might expose them to. There is always a risk of prats posting rubbish (I remember the eprson who launched into a massive rant with copious insults about DH having depression and being unemplyed when in fact he ahd 2 jobs, alongside his depression) and that is not preventable but a concise deletion policy and deeper understanding of disability issues is more than doable, it is a moral obligation when running a site like this.

I do btw always love the fact that caring about how my boys are perceived (and other children, and heck yes to an extent myself as I am spectrummmy, albeit very mild and coping) equates to not having a sense of humour, looking for fights and being easily offended.

I am none of those.

I would choose a piss up and a lugh with mates over tackling inequality on here any day, but find it easy enough to combine both into my life.

'"Mumsnet. By parents, for parents, unless your child has a disability and then we're not particularly interested" (although we will establish an SN section and market that as part of or advertising and recruitment strategy)

You know, in RL MNHQ has been good to me; it is very rare we disagree on much, and they have at times shown real kindness our way. I am sure it is not about intention, but awareness and would wonder how much formalised training they have had, something I think they should have if they run an SN section.

so now it isn't just hide it, it is go somewhere else!
how sad that anyone can think that is the answer, that if you don't like disablism you should leave,
I have always had respect for mn hq they have a difficult hob most of the time, but they have lost it on this, they can and will moderate when it suits them, look at the MM threads, people were banned in an instant on that issue.
so to suddenly go all free speech and low tolerance on what is a very seriou issue like this is bad.

We do need more solid ground rules for what is or is not acceptable.

And it should be made VERY clear by MNHQ.

We all know that if a poster started banding about racial remarks, they'd be jumped on. And rightly so.

However, the disablist/offensive remarks often go under the radar IMO.

Comments between posters for example, simple 'name calling'.

There needs to be a list drawn up of words that are NOT acceptable on the talk boards and then something needs to be put in place so that all posters are made aware of those words.

It doesn't have to be The Word Police, it needs to be realistic, but this issue also needs addressing.

I don;t have a problem with The Word Police

All it does is ask people (who must be bright enough by dint of being able to use MN) to think of another word.

It's not thought police, just asking for rephrasing.
s
Mong out becomes laze about, you throw like a spaz become you are a shit dancer.

No different to what happened before: referring to people as N or P becmae black people, Asian people (oh how I love the people part.... it's like when people say disabled people instead of the disabled: ascribe humanity somehow).

But as well as minimising offence it makes people think about what the words mean, and the emotions they convey.

Despite being fairly educated in Sn (to post grad level) I have ever only heard someone use the retard word in an up to date situation once, even then they acknowledged the bagage the word came with: a specialist consultant paediatrician who runs sought after tertiary clinic.

If she can deal with the word, so can we.

Indeed we can.

do you think it will ever change?
mn hq have gone very quiet and tbh I think they hope we get bored.
can I suggest we keep going, this shouldn't just die, even today there was some nasty stuff on another thread, and look at the JK one, it is horrid.
we have to make them listen

Well I think we ought not get bored .
too many times has this been bought up and nothing changes.
We are not asking for a lot.

I'm saddened that HQ aren't going to reply again. Part of the reason for posting rather than just emailing HQ was to open it up and stop the bog standard response via email.

Maybe it will only change when someone does intend to take further action?