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MNHQ

Mumsnet goes to the European Parliament: your thoughts?

31 replies

KateMumsnet · 03/03/2011 13:25

To mark the centenary of International Women's Day, Mumsnet has been invited to the EU Parliament for a rummage about. So we're off to Strasbourg, in a (possibly doomed) attempt to figure out what impact, if any, this labyrinthine institution has had on the equality of women here in the UK.

We'll be sitting in on a special IWD parliamentary session, where MEPs will be discussing what's been achieved to date to further women's equality across Europe, and debating what the next steps should be. The gender pay gap, the vexed issue of maternity leave, the lack of female decision-makers in business and politics, and the grim figures for female poverty across the EU are all on the agenda.

We'll be frantically trying to make sense of it all as the day unfolds; and with a bit of luck and a following wind we'll collar a couple of MEPs and policy bods along the way to answer your questions, and feed back your views.

So, whether you're entirely au fait with the EU's inner workings, or your heart sinks at the very thought of it, do post your questions, observations, gripes or suggestions here, and we'll try our best to get to the bottom of it all.

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MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 03/03/2011 19:51

Hello all

RamblingRosa - yes, the Pregnant Worker's Directive's a bit of a biggie isn't it? The EU parliament voted overwhelmingly in favour of extending paid maternity leave (although the amendment to extend it to 20 weeks rather than 16 weeks (I think) scraped through by a meagre seven votes. Interestingly, LOTS of British MEPs voted against the proposals, and it's top of my giant To Do list to try and grab one and find out why. It's now before the Council of the European Union (aka Council of Ministers) which comprises ministers from the various member states, and they seem to be stalling on it. I'll try and find out which way the wind is blowing.

AbsDuCroissant - is there a particular area of EU spending that you're concerned about?

Hello Posadas, we're going as MNHQ, and we're there to have a poke around the EU Parliament and report back on the IWD events, rather than to represent anyone. We did think though that we might get a chance to pick the brains, and maybe bend the ear, of an MEP or two if there were particular issues that MNers were interested in - though we'd make clear that Mumsnet is a many-tentacled octopus, so to speak, and not a block vote.

I suspect the learning curve involved in this trip will be practically vertical rather steep, so I'm hoping that those of you who know your Euro onions will be tempted onto the thread and I will pick it all up by osmosis. If anyone else has never quite got around to filling the EU-shaped gap in their brain, now's yer chance to speak up. If no clever person comes along to answer on the thread, I'll try to find Someone Who Knows.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 03/03/2011 19:57

No, no tea-serving oiwhatsoccurring Grin
Apols also for not acknowledging everyone - am on motorway with 3% battery left! I'll also be offline for some of tomorrow but I'll catch up with you as soon as I can.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 04/03/2011 00:47

Now on iPhone so apols for typos. But here's a bit more info on what's going on at the IWD parliamentary session on Tuesday. MEPs (in theory, all of them) are debating and voting on two resolutions put forward by the Women's Rights Committee. One on gender equality, the other on female poverty.

Overall seems the committee argues that ALL EU policies should have women's equality as their starting point, and that if women's employment, part-time employment and productivity rates were similar to men's, GDP wld increase by 30%.

Their position is that this will only be achieved by narrowing the gender pay gap, getting more women into decision-making positions and raising female employment rates. Plus they want child-related leave and better childcare facilities to be centre stage ...

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 04/03/2011 12:35

@loftyclodflop

Is MNHQ paying their own way to Strasbourg?

Hiya,
The EU invited us along with lots of other organisations to cover International Women's Day and are covering the costs.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 04/03/2011 19:01

Apols for radio silence, am posting with thumbs from iPhone and having to stand on a chair to get a signal Grin
RedbinD - I don't think either of the Kinnocks have any official connection to the EU any more? in which case they?re no longer receiving payments from European institutions. But yes, a common criticism of the EU is that there's a democratic deficit there, in that commissioners are appointed rather than elected (think I'm right in saying that Kinnock was appointed by the Major government.)

Glenys was elected as an MEP to the EU Parliament ? and although proposed legislation has to be passed by the Parliament in order to become law, that body doesn?t have the powers of a standard national parliament in that it can only accept, reject or amend legislation, rather than proposing it (only the unelected European Commission can do that). As far as I can work out the best it can do in that regard is pass resolutions ? more on the specific resolutions tabled for Tuesday's IWD session later.

I?ll see if I can get anyone to address these points while I?m there Lots of other points to chew over here, thanks all.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 04/03/2011 20:00

Lenin

as if by magic, also on the agenda for the IWD session is a blimmin topical call for member states to ?take effective measures, such as quotas, to ensure greater representation for women in major listed companies and on the management boards of companies in general?.

In case you missed it, Lord Davies reported back to govt this week on the the representation of women in boardrooms (only 12% of FTSE 100 directors are women) but concluded that increased transparency in the recruitment process, rather than Norwegian-style mandatory quotas, was the way to go.

This puts him at odds with the way the EU wind is generally blowing: France and Spain are thinking about legislating for quotas, and Angela Merkel has given German companies "one last chance" to self-regulate.

Deutsche Bank?s chief exec apparently responded that a woman would make his board "more colourful and prettier", exposing the shocking fact that not everyone in power has quite got this equality lark.

Actually, this session is shaping up to be quite interesting...

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 05/03/2011 21:10

Shezzle, I think that is on the agenda for the parliamentary session on Tues, so I'll let you know.

Right, looks like I?m going to be speaking to two MEPs about the Pregnant Worker?s Directive, amongst other things - Mary Honeyball and Marina Yannakoudalis . Both voted against the directive ? Marina gives her reasons here, and Mary makes her case here.

As I've already banged on about, the EU Parliament overall voted in favour; the legislation is now before the Council of Ministers who look likely to reject it (both Parliament and the Council have to pass legislation for it to be enacted.) I?ll be asking Marina and Mary what they?d like to see in place of the PWD ? any other points of view you?d like to get across?

Another question: twice this week I?ve been asked who my MEP was, and I?m ashamed to admit I had NO IDEA. An entirely unrepresentative poll of the next ten people I spoke to revealed that 90% of my acquaintance are equally in the dark.

So ? any idea who your MEP is, and where they stand on the issues you?re interested in? UK turnout for Euro elections hasn?t got above 40% in thirty years, so if you don?t, you?re not alone.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 06/03/2011 10:11

Meglet and swallowedafly: Barbara Matera is an Italian MEP who?s Vice-Chair of the Women's Rights Committee. She?s preparing a report on the situation of single mothers in the European Union ? I?ll try and get in touch with her.

Sophable, Tribpot: your points all noted - thanks very much.

And just came across something going on right now which neatly illustrates both the complexity of European law-making, and the possibility of influencing EU legislation via your MEP. It?s about the claims that manufacturers can make about the health benefits of follow-on milk. Bear with me, friends ? it?s looong and involves Committees, Resolutions and Directives.

So. In December the EU Standing Committee on Food Chain and Animal Health (an EU Commission body, so not elected) decided to let manufacturers of follow-on formula milk claim in adverts etc that DHA (a fatty-acid found in breastmilk and added to follow-on formulas and baby foods) will improve babies' eyesight.

DHA has a proven role in the development of babies? eyesight when it occurs naturally in breastmilk, but independent reviews found 'no proven benefit' to DHA when added to follow-on milk. Baby Milk Action (predictably, they?re against these claims) has an example of how one manufacturer is using them in ads, on [[http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:SCit5CX1NUEJ:info.babymilkaction.org/sites/info.babymilkaction.org/files/DHA%2520FINAL.pdf+10+reasons+to+stop+this+DHA+claim&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiALM943SGsy_iHrJomc98a3B-0r-httDRabYmD3brJ8M0oyr0gHpRiRc22FiL80Ssrx8ibzS2f7XHY4o8I9lSKymmGNvwIYroBrQEmNIQohUipP_Fz8sM4TOCNKPnoYHMlmjoG&sig=AHIEtbSvFPn7RISOxChOdZEEvbXZ9_pHBg
their site]].

The meeting which decided this took place behind closed doorts - in 1989 Parliament was stripped of its responsibility to legislate on baby foods by the PARNUTS Directive, which transferred this power to the European Commission. So there?s now no automatic requirement to consult parliament at all on this kind of thing.

But four MEPs have tabled a Resolution objecting to allowing the industry to make this claim. ENVI (the Committee on the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety) is holding an 'extraordinary meeting' this Monday to consider it, and if they vote to support it on 16th of March, it will be go before all MEPs in April, and could be overturned. And in June, MEPs will be considering whether to bring baby food legislation back within their remit.

So, as an example, if you felt strongly about these particular issues, you could lobby your MEP (it?s not something that your MP would be able to impact I don't think ? too late once it?s been passed) about both the claims themselves, and the fact that baby food legislation isn?t subject to EU scrutiny. They?ll probably be so surprised to hear from you that they?ll immediately do what you say Wink.

With a bit of luck I?m going to be meeting Glenis Willmott, who?s one of the MEPs tabling the resolution - and Marina Yannakoudalis is on the ENVI committee for the Conservatives, so do shout if you?ve got suggestions or questions.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 06/03/2011 10:15

Forgot to mention that my guilt at not knowing who my MEP is led me to this site which has a list of 'em all.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 06/03/2011 10:32

An embarrassment of riches, Len.

I'm now worrying about what to wear. Yes, I am that shallow.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 06/03/2011 11:08

Think the best thing to do would be to start a thread in Campaigns, swallowedAfly. See if you can get a groundswell of support?

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 06/03/2011 20:16

I think that's decided by their party MmeLindt - but I'll find out. I agree it seems rather, um, counterintuitive that Godfrey Bloom is on the WRGE committee

Forster I think that's a really interesting proposal and not one which I've heard before. I'll try and explore further when I'm there. Thanks.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 06/03/2011 22:14

Good point Leningrad. If 'parent' were a protected characteristic, there wouldn't seem a logical argument against expanding that to 'caring' - anyone?

Also perhaps of interest: thought I should check out how much UK legislation comes from the EU, since it seems to be a heavily-disputed point .

UKIP leader Nigel Farage, in his hugely-enjoyable MN webchat, claimed it was 74%; his more exuberant colleague Daniel Hannan puts it at 84%. David Cameron, before he became PM, reckoned that the figure was nearer 50%.

At the other end of the scale, the House of Commons Library, which is politically neutral, came up with a figure of 9.1%. Which seems rather low.

The problem is that there?s no accepted base standard. UKIP appears to have got its figures from an analysis by the German govt, which has a very different legislative system from the UK. Cameron was talking about both laws and regulations which affect UK businesses; the House of Commons Library considered only ?statutory instruments? - legislation from the EU which passes into UK law by default, without being put before parliament; (although since statutory instruments make up the bulk of all UK legislation, not only the EU-driven stuff, that's potentially not unreasonable). In May 2009, a report by the British Chamber of Commerce found that the EU accounted for around 20 per cent of regulatory legislation in Britain in 2008-09.

Soooo. EU-UK legislative relationship status: It?s Complicated.

This page gives a snapshot of what other EU states reckon the percentage of their national legislation is EU-derived: 6.3 percent according to the Swedish parliament, 12 percent according to the Finnish parliament. The Lithuanians say it's between 12% and 19%.

And the House of Commons Library recently put out a much more comprehensive study of the percentage of UK laws that originate from the EU, and they now reckon on approximately 15%.

Enjoy Wink!

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 07/03/2011 23:17

OK, l'Europe - je suis arrivée! And at only 9 train-hours door-to-door, the continent really is just a hop and a skip away Wink.

So. Strasbourg itself is very pretty. For a comprehensive picture of the European Parliament building, imagine the Telford HQ of a medium-sized conglomerate, scale up x 1000, add a bajillion corridors, walkways and mezzanines, multiply by Heathrow, subtract fresh air and you'll be in the ballpark.

At 9pm the place was still a hive of activity - the entire Parliament shuttles to Strasbourg from Brussels once a month for a plenary session, which today started at 5pm and looked to go on well into the night. Disappointingly all the Eurocrats I've met so far have faces, and couldn't be more friendly and helpful. They are like us Shock (but cheerful and urbane Grin)

Tomorrow I'll be in the Chamber listening to the International Women's Day debates on the 2010 report on Equality Between Men and Women, and on the feminisation of poverty - and then at a smaller discussion about how to increase the numbers of women in positions of influence. With luck I'll also be talking to a policy bod from the Women's Rights and Gender Equality Committee, to get a sense of past achievements and future challenges - so speak now or forever hold your peas if you've got points to make or questions to ask.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 07/03/2011 23:37

One quick observation before I hit the sack - the lovely press officer who's trying to ensure I don't end up in the laundry corridor instead of the Chamber tomorrow pointed out how few of the officials here are British - as the number of schoolchildren studying a European language has declined, so has the number of UK graduates applying for these (pretty fantastic) jobs. Two European languages is a minimum. Thoughts?

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 08/03/2011 09:43

Right, after only 30 minutes wandering hopefully through identical corridors, I?ve just found the press gallery in the Chamber (basically a gigantic hollow wooden ball at the centre of the main building.) They?re debating a report on the Institutions? administrative budget and I?m listening via headphones to a simultaneous translation, which in itself is a rather dislocating experience, particularly since I currently have NO IDEA who the various members speaking are or which country they represent.

So far it is very sedate, though one MEP (not British) did just harangue the chair in heavily-accented English over the creation of 50 new posts which ?pay more than the British Prime Minister earns?. She peaked with a bizarrely British tabloid-style declamation: ?STOP this rip-off!!!?. Perhaps she was reading from a speech prepared by the British members of her Euro-sceptic group? It was most odd, though not as odd as the Danish official who told me, while processing my accreditation, that she once bought a black cab in Birmingham on a whim, and drove it back to Denmark.

It?s all a bit boggling so far to be honest.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 08/03/2011 15:13

Right then, it all got a bit more lively after introductions from the authors of the two IWD reports. LOTS of MEPs got up to make very short speeches ? they each get between 1 and 2 mins ? there?s a giant clock counting down to tell them how long they?ve got left, so they panic and speed up dramatically at the end, with the poor translators squeaking to keep up. Not sure what happens if they go over ? a big klaxon?

Most MEPs welcomed the reports - a few said they couldn?t support any moves towards quotas for the boards of listed companies but on the whole reception was positive and sedate.

It all went a bit off-piste when Godfrey Bloom, who?s on the Women?s Rights and Gender Equality Committee for UKIP (notwithstanding his well-rehearsed views in this area), harangued parliament for making ?a dog?s breakfast? of things, repeating his point that UK small businesses would have to be ?stark staring mad to employ a young woman? if the Pregnant Worker?s Directive passes into law (not on the agenda today). On boardroom quotas (?what kind of madness is this?!?) he claimed that no-one would believe that women had got their jobs on merit ? an entirely defensible position only slightly undermined by his roaring that ?none of you have done a real job in your lives or you would UNDERSTAND.? [blinks]

Mass raising of blue cards (how MEPs signal that they want to disagree). Eva Britt Svenson, who?s Chair of the committee, responded that it?s not stark staring mad to want parental leave, and the Nordic countries which go all out for this also have the highest rate of female employment with consequent benefit to their economies (the EU is committed to 75% employability to support an aging population)

Bloom (booming): ?I?m not INTERESTED in your country or others, only in mine! Draconian laws won?t help employment! I wish you would come into the real world ? hands up who?s had a real job!?

This was followed by a sea of blue cards: Edite Estrela (Vice Chair of the commiteee) said that the UK?s problem was that it had weak maternity pay provision, and that 33 weeks of it were little more than symbolic.

Bloom (really quite heated): ?Our problem is that we have given up self-government! THAT?s our problem!?

Estrela: I thank Mr Bloom for his opinions - they are widespread, although those who hold them tend on the whole to keep quiet about it. I want to ask him: are children the children of women only, or of fathers too?

Bloom: Children are the responsibility of their parents and no-one else. Someone shouldn?t have to take responsibility for his neighbour's children. The more personal responsibility we have in the EU and round the world the better the world would be in my view.

And with that, the Member left the Chamber. The Europeans must have been rather taken aback - and that was before a BNP member appeared to compare the resolutions to a Trotskyist plot to persuade people that they were being discriminated against, and decried the fact that the word ?discrimination? had become the ultimate evil.. Hmm

It's all go here.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 08/03/2011 16:03

Leningrad, I can grant your wish to hear the word 'quotas'. On the other matter, I can offer you 'now-ish'.

Quotas for private sector management boards were the most controversial aspect of the debate on the resolution tabled in the report on Equality between men and women - Marina Yannakoudakis, the Conservative MEP that I'm meeting with tomorrow, said she thought quotas were deeply patronising (almost as patronising, she said, as the red rose which all female MEPs were handed today - what were they thinking?)

The resolution was passed, though certainly not unanimously - think the numbers were 366 in favour, 200 against, with 32 abstaining. A resolution doesn't have any legislative meaning - but it's the firmest way for the European Parliament to put pressure on the European Commission to act, which I get the sense that they've been until recently shy of doing.

Viviane Reding, who's Vice President of the EU Commission and responsible for fundamental rights amongst other things, accepted the resolution and said that the first step would be to offer listed companies a 'last chance' to self-regulate - with a promise to monitor them carefully for a year.

If doesn't improved dramatically in that time (she set an overall timetable of 30% by 2015 and 40% by 2020) then they will move to legislate. But a Green MEP speaking at the seminar right now seems very Hmm that it will actually ever come to legislation, pointing out that there's no mention of binding targets in the resolution..

And if there were, whether it would in fact pass or not would depends on many variables - not least of which, the number of people who make their opinions known to their MEP Wink.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 08/03/2011 16:27

Nail on head, Twit Blush

Other pertinent matters: the resolution on female poverty was passed, including an article which "strongly encourages" member countries to achieve a 1% reduction of the gender pay gap each year, to meet a target of 10% reduction by 2020. Plus, it wants full pay for women during statutory maternity leave, which was recommended by the Pregnant Worker Directive (now absolutely stalled by member states).

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 08/03/2011 16:41

I think they are talking about binding quotas for national parliaments, Lenin - but I've got to check whether it's a vague notion or a definite plan.

European Parliament stats are not-bad-considering: 35% (Finland has 60%!).

National parliaments vary dramatically - Sweden 47%, France 17% , Malta 9%. Also doing well - Finland and Spain, with just over and just under 40% respectively.

Almost everyone has more female MEPs than they have in their national parliament - the UK has 32% of MEPs are female, though women make up only a depressing 20% of MPs.

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 08/03/2011 23:24

Jules - blimey indeed. We bumped into Nigel Farage tonight in the town; he was walking in the road against the flow of traffic, which seemed rather symbolic Wink.

Sophable, Custy, I have made enquiries about those jobs. Seems you have to go through the equivalent of the Civil Service exams - verbal reasoning, psychometric tests and so forth, but in French or German Shock. After that, you're in - but it might take them 5 years or so to actually offer you a post, and you'd probably have to move your entire operation to Brussels. Plus you'd then have to spend one week a month in an overpriced b+b in Strasbourg. If you're still interested, I'll put a word in with the Vice PrezGrin.

Lenin, I think it would be very hard to be an MEP with a young family. Which prompts the general question: how can you legislate effectively for equality, when so much of the critical stuff takes place in the private domain? So much comes down to who, in a relationship, shoulders responsibility for childcare, organising domestic life, housework etc?

MNHQ

KatieMumsnet · 09/03/2011 14:04

Am loving it. Must log on to see lovely Godfrey Wink. Great work Kate, I feel a Mumsnet Pulitzer celebratory Wine coming your way!

MNHQ

KatieMumsnet · 09/03/2011 16:07

Ah, just to keep you on your toes!

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 09/03/2011 20:14

I'm back in good old Lunnen Town! Had interesting convos first thing this morning with Marina Yannakoudakis, Mary Honeyball (both on the Women's Rights and Gender Equality committee) and Glenis Wilmott (tabled the resolution against formula manufacturers being able to make marketing health claims for synthetic DHA in follow-on milk).

A bit pie-eyed now, so I'll update on all that tomorrow. My schedule for this evening involves bedtime stories, take-away curry, The Killing on iPlayer and possibly a large glass of wine or three.

V briefly: it's been a really interesting trip. I arrived woefully under-informed, and I'm still woefully under-informed; but I get it a bit better now.

A bientôt, mes amis!

MNHQ

KateMumsnet · 10/03/2011 15:04

So ? a drip-fed selection of chewy bits from the meetings I had yesterday.

First up, Conservative MEP Marina Yannakoudakis, who voted against the proposal to extend maternity provision to 20 weeks on full pay.

Marina says that she doesn?t object to maternity pay (!) but to the form the directive was presented in. She says women have a right to choose, and they should be helped if they choose to return to work - but argues that the proposals were too rigid for today?s economic climate, and that if they?d been applied, companies would simply employ fewer women.

I put ForkfulOfTabouleh?s point that, under the current system, companies claim back SMP ? she responded that the directive hadn?t been clear on whether that would still be the case. If it had been, she might have viewed it differently.

She thinks companies should be encouraged to give the best terms that they can, but that this must be flexible. She wasn?t very keen on principal on further legislation: ?I like to see companies being able to run themselves as much as possible, but with the minimum standard that already exists. We don?t want to go back to the old days.?

Marina spoke very firmly against boardroom quotas in the plenary session: ?We?ve got to win the business case, we?ve got to get there because of our own hard work. Things are improving slowly. I?d rather get there slowly, and get there firmly, than have some man sniggering in the corner saying we?re only there because of a quota.?

She herself made the point that women have got to be twice as good as men to reach the top, but didn?t accept that this logically implied widespread discrimination, and was therefore a matter for legislation.

?You can legislate to a certain degree, but we are getting there under our own steam. There is already basic legislation ? how well is it working? That?s what you?re asking.? On parliamentary quotas, she gave the example of David Cameron ?putting women at the front? ? but said that after that, it was up to them to get themselves elected.

StillSquiffy and Wills: I asked Marina what she thought could/should be done to enable women to return to top level roles by encouraging companies to reduce working hours. She talked about running her own company for 25 years, which she says was 24/7 by necessity.

But ?you don?t have to do an 80-hour week. You only have to do the 80-hour week if you want to be at the top - you could choose to be at different level that suits you at that stage of your life. Different stages, different needs. It?s very personal, it?s not a matter for govt. Govt is there to support, but we have to make our own choices.?

Also asked Abr1de?s question about why we needed an EU Parliament at all. Marina thinks there are many many areas that the EU shouldn?t be interfering in at all. ?I think there are issues like employment that we can deal with better at home. But we no longer live in an island that stops at the channel. We have to think more widely.?

She cited a whole range of issues which didn?t respect national borders, and therefore had to be dealt with at an EU level ? trafficking, child abuse, internet grooming, counterfeit medicines, for example - and she was also keen on portable restraining orders for women who?d suffered DV.

Interestingly, she suggested that we were fortunate in the various protections we enjoy in the UK, and that other member states weren?t so lucky. ?Do we have a corporate obligation to spread our good practices? That?s an EU role.?

She was very critical of the wastefulness of moving the whole shebang to Strasbourg once a month (a decision made at government level by member states), but like others I spoke to she attributes the Hmm attitude to Europe held by a good chunk of Brits to the flow of negative stories in the press. ?Wherever I?ve been, people are sceptical, when I leave people often say ?okay, there is a role for us ? not necessarily the role we have now, but there is a role, and there are things we can do with this institution.?

On being MEP and mother, coping with travelling etc. ?It?s extremely difficult. I wouldn?t do it if I had a young child. My youngest is at university and I still find it extremely hard. It?s a trade-off - but I wouldn?t have done it if I had to sacrifice my family?

So there you go. Going off-radar for a bit while I mop up things neglected while I was pretending to be a hotshot journo in Strazza, but more from the others in a while.

Oh, SwallowedaFly, Meglet and others: single mothers featured heavily in the Female Poverty resolution that was passed on Tuesday ? just trying to get hold of a full copy for specifics. There?s also a more general report on lone parents underway which will be published later in the year, and will probably spur further resolutions.

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