recent decision by MNHQ

[NetworkGuy]

Please, MNHQ, do have a read of this thread and consult your Tech people so they can give you the answers as to whether your support for this campaign and the Minister's plans are worth going on with.

I would hope you not only reverse your position but assuming you get sufficient technical reasoning in 'Plain English', that you go public and explain how unworkable the proposal is likely to be. I feel sure journalists at Computer Weekly and Computing will be able to provide confirmation that filtering is a hiding to nothing and can be very costly because of the millions of GB of data flowing through the bigger ISP networks.

For anyone baffled, and wondering if I'm a nut case, this concerns a proposal to get ISPs to "filter out" all porn, unless a customer "opts in". For numerous technical reasons the idea is never likely to achieve filtering without blocking access to legitimate sites or not blocking access to better than say 95% reliable, thus making it a costly exercise in futility, while parental vigilance and filtering software at the home would still be essential for peace of mind.

(Incidentally the wording of the campaign page implies the parents need to ask, at the same time as someone wanting not to have censored content needs to ask - it is one or other, but not both that would need to contact ISP. )

Also marking my spot as I have just read the entire thread (that has probably been added and added to whilst doing so).

The duplication of something that already exists is a nonsense. And don't you dare suggest that I am not concerned with pornography and my children's ability to access it. Of course I am concerned and as such have one family computer that is in the most public room. I use the internet parental controls that my ISP provides. I look at the history from time to time. I talk to my children etc etc.

I do not wish to have this imposed on me from the top down. My own website contains pictures of breasts. My clients give birth and breastfeed. Some of their testimonial stories include pictures of them breastfeeding their children. I have a small resource of breastfeeding pictures.

It is completely disingenuous to say that some people don't take parental responsibility and therefore it has to be done for them and how bloody patronising. There are so many things that we have laws for that are put in place because some people don't do what "all people should". These laws are still broken.

Parental responsibility is the key issue. It is there that the campaigns need to focus. Free parental controls with each device with simple instructions. Yes via download so that it is accessible for all.

I do not lend my support as a Mumsnetter to this campaign and I resent the implication that I do.

I do not wish to leave MN but I do not want my name associated with this ill-thought through campaign. As MarsLady is my internet name for everything (too lazy to think up other names) I shall change my user name here.

(now to go and have the lunch I didn't eat because I was busy reading. Thank you knowledgeable posters btw. How wonderful to see such arguments.)

LeninGrad - they will (like mobiles up to now) probably have a variety.

On Mobiles, there are at least the following:

Symbian (36% of market) No giggling, Baroque !

Android (25%) (many manufacturers)

iOS (17%) (only Apple)

RIM (15%) Blackberry phones

Windows Phone 7 (several likely)
Windows Mobile (many)

Microsoft make up under 7% of market

Linux ~2% (a few, pre-Android phones)

NB I have only tried Windows Mobile v6 (out of date, on a T-Mobile MDA Vario V, while the other phone with touch screen a T-Mobile Vibe doesn't even get mention of some operating system!

The majority of discussion seems to be about TVs supporting Android (the Google conference, May 2010, said some TVs could be available in the 4th quarter 2010).

There's speculation the Sony Bravia runs a version of Linux. Of course Apple produced its own, based on a stripped down version of what is used in Macs (I assume OS X), according to a Mac related site - everymac.com

Do not confuse with WebTV which was a service back in the 90s. I used webTV in a cafe in Palo Alto and it was very limited, rather like Prestel in terms of quantity of information on screen at once.

Mars!!!!

I didn't realise you were still here - I've not seen you around for ages!!

isn't giggling honest guv

how do you know what OS a phone is using

@MarsLady

Also marking my spot as I have just read the entire thread (that has probably been added and added to whilst doing so).

The duplication of something that already exists is a nonsense. And don't you dare suggest that I am not concerned with pornography and my children's ability to access it. Of course I am concerned and as such have one family computer that is in the most public room. I use the internet parental controls that my ISP provides. I look at the history from time to time. I talk to my children etc etc.

I do not wish to have this imposed on me from the top down. My own website contains pictures of breasts. My clients give birth and breastfeed. Some of their testimonial stories include pictures of them breastfeeding their children. I have a small resource of breastfeeding pictures.

It is completely disingenuous to say that some people don't take parental responsibility and therefore it has to be done for them and how bloody patronising. There are so many things that we have laws for that are put in place because some people don't do what "all people should". These laws are still broken.

Parental responsibility is the key issue. It is there that the campaigns need to focus. Free parental controls with each device with simple instructions. Yes via download so that it is accessible for all.

I do not lend my support as a Mumsnetter to this campaign and I resent the implication that I do.

I do not wish to leave MN but I do not want my name associated with this ill-thought through campaign. As MarsLady is my internet name for everything (too lazy to think up other names) I shall change my user name here.

(now to go and have the lunch I didn't eat because I was busy reading. Thank you knowledgeable posters btw. How wonderful to see such arguments.)

Wah! we are not for a minute suggesting that we would back something that censored breasts - for gawd sake MN would never get through that filter. But clearly we have not framed our argument particularly well [understatement]. So we shall take down the page and start again... it was due for an update yesterday anyway.

As ever thanks for all your input!

Re user interface (LeninGrad) - a week or two back I was sorting out a Lexmark printer / scanner / copier / fax to make the 'scan to e-mail' function work.

This printer had its own web server and configuration screens like nothing I had seen before (quite friendly, though) and in a relatively short amount of time, I had set up a generic "This attachment is from XYZ - contact number is 0xxxx-xxxxxx".

I don't see it being too big a deal for a router to have a friendly interface, and if it could be done as an 'open source' project, it would be outside the control of a single router manufacturer and cheap/free too.

As an open source project, it would allow far more flexibility and block any central over-ride of the router itself, because (clever) users could work together to enhance the software.

Yes I'm still here. I got myself a laptop lol! Now I have time to surf study, do my paperwork, email etc etc.

Life just rather busy and with the children getting older many of my main reasons for being on MN don't really exist anymore.

And the advent of Sky Atlantic.... far too much good TV

Thanks Justine. Good to see a rethink is under way.

By the by, we've just realised that apparently our registration email seems to have been blacklisted because it contains an offer for Nakedwines - this is absolutely not the desired outcome.

ahh - laptops are fabulous aren't they - best thing I treated myself to in a long time was my little laptop last year.

Thankyou!

I'm reasonably convinced Justine that you know I'm not saying that you are campaigning against breasts. Having read the thread and seen all the implications for the "top down" filter, my own website could very easily fall foul of a National ISP system. Therefore it is the perfect example for me to use.

(baroque... I do know who you are )

Excellent post by Plentyofparsnips.

Just goes to show that the devil is in the details.

Already we can see glaring holes.

• So one size fits all.
• If you add a site & it doesn't work then please familiarise yourself with HTML and figure out why.....
• "only works for browsers" - what they mean is port 80. use a proxy or Anonymising site like The Cloak and bingo....the blocking is as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Suggesting that filtering content at ISP level is viable, is a joke, one that will cost a fortune and be of no use.. It is also not laudable for the many, many reasons posted. An ill thought out proposal from an ill-informed MP.

I am concerned with knife crime amongst the younger people too. I will write to this MP to ask to abolish the manufacture and importing of all knives. Er except for the ones used in surgery, oh and for kitchens but definately the ones young people use, for stabbing, but not for eating their dinner.

Oh maybe parents should keep a count of knives in the drawer and tell their children that knives can be dangerous.

oops posted that on wrong thread, was meant for the campaign thread.

"If I feel like this, how the hell are so many other parents meant to cope with these type of decisions?"

It is complicated, and that is why education and help is the answer. Putting some overblown and expensive technical solution into place that just won't work is a complete and utter waste of time and will leave parents none the wiser about what they really need to do to protect their children.

In fact it will make things worse as parents will trust the filters to protect their children.

Instead of putting money into the pockets of IT consultants for a scheme destined to fail spend the same money educating, information and making a genuine difference to children's safety.

"and by the way snigger at your registration email being blacklisted because it contains an offer for Nakedwines"

And that is a actually a great example of why filtering just cannot work, and it's an example that anyone who's paid even the slightest attention to the Australian example would understand.

It's all very well saying that porn is obvious, but when you find out that vast amounts of porn aren't blocked but on the other hand innocent content ends up on the blacklist you'll begin to see the huge problems that any filtering approach will inevitably hit.

How do you think the filter would work, Justine? How will it know the difference between innocent boobies and hardcore porn boobies?0

You know what?

This makes my blood run cold.

Mumsnet should not decide whether or not I can look at willies.

Freedom is hard won and easily eroded.

If a 7 year old can operate a computer, you can too. There is no excuse for absolving yourself of the responsibility to protect them.

Whatever next?

Please drop this hysterical and misguided campaign.

I am ashamed to be a mumsnetter at the moment.

mrsgordonfreeman - don't get in a panic - MNHQ has already deleted the campaign page

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/porn-default-filter

and will clearly have quite a bit of thinking to do before putting a new version online.

Rats! That glitch in MN for posting added a space

mumsnet.com/campaigns/porn-default-filter

I know they've taken it down for now.

DH runs an ISP and is a Free Software and digital freedom activist. He has hold of this now...

at the email being rejected.

Baroque
You do know that when you post like