Help Judge Flounce!

[GeorginaA]

Just a quick check on consumer rights (although I suspect I don't have a leg to stand on here )

Bought a Lascal KiddyGuard stairgate to block off the kitchen doorway from retailer X. It's advertised as a one handed opening system. Then we realise we're not going to get away with just using closed doors and purchase 2 more of the same stairgate from Kiddicare.com on the 12th December - again it's advertised there as a one handed opening system.

We fit the first one over this weekend (the first opportunity we've had) on the kitchen door as this is the easiest area to fit (not an awkward shape). It soon becomes apparent that not only are they a bugger to fit and not only can my almost 4-year-old not manage to open them, I can't open and close them easily two handed let alone one handed. The bottom hook doesn't hook in and out easily because of the position of the handle. They're a real bugger.

Okay, so we still have the other two unopened. I send an email to kiddicare.com asking to return them as they're not fit for purpose. I get an email back saying effectively "no no, they're easy you just need practise". I reply along the lines of "thanks all the same, but we really can't operate these and we want our money back".

I've just had a reply saying because it's beyond the 7 day returns policy we can't return them??!

I was under the impression that legally it had to be longer than that? There was no way in 7 days over Christmas we'd be able to fit them.

We're going to be about £100 out of pocket on this, so quite upset about it, but at the same time am prepared to accept that we don't have a leg to stand on if we don't. Shall just avoid shopping there in the future.

Thank you ... will let you know how I get on

ladymuck - doing a quick search on these boards shows that several people have problems opening these gates one-handed. Surely if they're billing it as "easy" then a higher percentage should be able to manage it? Most of the pressure gates are perfectly capable of being opened one handed WITHOUT practise or getting the right "knack" to them.

GeorginaA, just wondering what the legal position was though - what percentage of people need to be able to use something for a manufacturer claim to stand up? By defintion stairgates musn't be that easy to open, otherwise they're useless.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to claim a refund, though I would have expected that to follow as a goodwill gesture from kiddicare.com. I'm just querying whether the statutory position is that clearcut?

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So if an individual is unable to use the stairgate as advertised, that individual has a statutory right to a refund?

No, I'm not as thin as Pph .

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Is that a yay or a nay on the individual unable to use question that ladymuck raised, JF?

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But here we are talking about a fairly common brand of stairgate, and as I understand GeorginaA doesn't feel that the stairgate is "faulty" in that it isn't in line with its design - it's just "she" doesn't find it that easy to use, and had she had the opportunity to say try it out in a shop, she would have realised that it didn't suit her needs.

Or to take your car analagy - what if it is a good runner, but you're just a cr*p driver? Do you still get a refund just because you can't cope with the clutch?

ladymuck: as I understand it, distance buying has slightly different rules anyway? I.e. I couldn't try it out in the shop.

BTW, I really don't think I'm that incompetent with this damn stairgate... am I really?

Dh fitted it, following the instructions to the letter and he has a 1st class honours degree in engineering and fairly handy with DIY stuff, so I'd assume he's above the mean in terms of being able to follow a simple set of fitting instructions. I'm not completely stupid (at least I hope not) - I can operate other brands of stairgate fine.

I don't know, maybe I should just forget it, read the terms & conditions more carefully (and only shop at places that have a reasonable returns policy) and lose the £100 Certainly not shop somewhere on the basis of cheapest ever again.

I worked it out earlier, I don't have the exact delivery date but working it out on their 3-5 days delivery and with the bank holidays over Christmas, I only missed the 7 working day thing by a matter of days.

Bugger.

(I would have tried it out in a shop, but there don't appear to be any retailers near here that stock it. Mothercare certainly don't)

Ironic really. If Mothercare or Boots had stocked it, I'd have been well within the 28 day & 30 day refund respectively...

Sorry GeorginaA - I don't mean to disparage you at all - I'm just surprised if the law is that black and white.

I have had the same gates, and they do take some getting used to. As I saw it the main "unique selling features" were that there was no bar on the floor and that they folded neatly out of sight (rather than they opened one-handedly, which as you point out many stairgates do). However these gates baffled most of my friends, and in the end I used some alternative ones when I moved house.

That said, given that at first I had only used these gates, all of the other makes equally baffled me, and I often got trapped in or out of rooms in other people's houses. Hence I'm interested in understanding whether an individual can claim a refund for misrepresentation if there are other people who can use the product as intended? Especially as by definition these shouldn't be that easy to open - so the fact that your 3 year-old can't open them couldn't be a seller's misrepresentation, surely? I really do think that you ought to get a refund - I'm just wondering whether you are automatically due a refund in the way that JF is suggesting.

Regarding the distance selling aspect - unfortunately the law does just provide for a 7 working days cooling off period (assuming that the site does have the usual terms and conditions on display somewhere).

Agree you've been treated shabbily, and it is very ironic that this topic is sponsored by Kiddicare....

Don't apologise ladymuck - I appreciate the reality check, I really do.

Part of me is very cross that I've been dealt with so badly (the email responses from them have been very brusque and patronising) but part of me is cross with myself that we didn't get organised enough to try them out within the 7 days. It's difficult to unentangle the two within my head.

I just feel so frustrated because we can ill afford the £100 "wasted" and the boxes are in perfect condition sitting in the hallway. I can't see how they can lose in taking them back - I'd be happy to pay the postage return and they can sell them on to someone else. It's also not as if it's the only thing I've ever bought off them.

Well, having just read this thread, as a result I personally will NEVER buy anything from kiddicare.com. Companies that have unreasonably strict and non-customer friendly return policies are one of my pet peeves. I won't ever shop at Tesco's either since they refused to let me exhange some nappies for a larger size since I had bought them 29 days (as opposed to 28) ago.

If it comes to the worst and you can't get your money back from Kiddicare, you could turn to ebay?

Yes, I'll probably have to go the ebay route if no luck. Try and recoup some money.

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JF?

JF?

I'm still waiting for a reply on my latest email where I did use your advice. Just don't know if it's worth pursuing further if it doesn't work.

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