people carriers - again

[lady]

I know there has already been a very good thread about people carriers, but I would like to be a little more specific. It seems that there is much to be said for most of them, and it really depends on one's own likes/dislikes and requirements. Mine are very specific, and I would really like to hear from someone with similar requirements.
My kids are 5,3,1. For the last 4 yrs I have been driving a Saab 9-5 estate which is fantastic. Fits 3 car seats, loads of seat space, loads of boot space for luggage and dogs. The problem is that I now have at least 3 runs a day to do - we live in the country and have a 5 mile run to the village where the kids are at school / nursery. Soemone who lives quite close has children with the same routines, so by combining we can do 10 runs a week each rather than 15. So we have 6 kids, aged 6,5,4,3,2,1!!!
The people carrier would be purely a taxi for school run use. I don't need luggage space or dog space, but I do need space for a Maclaren buggy and millions of school bags (13 on a Monday!), and I need seats that will take 2 car seats but all still be accesible, but also accessible to the adult who inevitably has to help with strapping in.
I have looked at a Zafira, but access to the back row worries me (re car seats in middle row) plus the lap belt (we want to get 2nd hand - I know the new one has a 3-pt)and also there seems to be no boot space at all when the third row is up.
I really don't want a bus, I want to stay as close to "car" as possible.
Does anyone have advice? How is the Sharan?

bk, Parkers used car search lets you put in all your requirements - comes up with suggestions (it takes a while) and then you can read their reviews.

lady, you could use this one too! (Forgot it before).

aha Janh!!! Am I giving you product info??!!

How thw worm turns....

It splits .. behind the driver side - ours is an Opel import we got from a supermarket in Slough!

Codswallop would you think the Zafira would be suitable for me, being that you have experience so to speak. Have 3 DD's 9,7 and 2 and occasionally need the extra seats for when SS is here or when giving niece and nephew a lift. Other than that would have the additional two seats stowed away most of the time? Boot needs to be able to fit my stroller buggy in plus shopping..lol..!

Yes but get one with a 3 point belt in the middle and its great - i use the rear seats fro cousins and the like and theyre fine

oh and in our 2 year ols one you cant disable the front air bag with out disabling all of them so your 9 year old would have to sit int he back for a few years..stops the argument s I suppose

coddy, you mean the whole seat splits, and you can slide the 2 bits independently? That's not fair!

Mine is an actual Vauxhall, just the back splits, behind the driver's seat - though I don't know why they bothered, because you can't climb in and out unless you slide the whole thing forward, so anybody sitting the other side would have to get out first anyway.

No think you are right - it folds enought to wriggle through.. doent slide alone - tyou are right

sorry

3girlsmum, see what I wrote further down about stowing the luggage cover/carpet when you're using the rear seats - if you're giving people lifts it's VERY ANNOYING!

Oh, that's OK then, coddy - I won't be complaining to Vauxhall!

Nobody in our house could wriggle through that gap - we're all too big. DH sat in one of the rear seats when we all went out the other day (certain combinations of children just don't work and it was the quickest solution!) and watching him getting in and out, even with the middle row forward, was an entertainment - bless him!

|I never use it Jan

I love my Chrysler Grand Voyager. Especially love the heated front seats, a real bonus in this cold weather and when in labour!

janh, thanks

This is excellent, everyone, ta! nExt problem: DH still thinks the Zafire is the way to go. I say to him - you have to see it, but I don't trust him not to see and buy at the same time.
Interesting about the buggy being OK in there. Maybe her buggy isn't as compact as the Maclaren. Do you then pile stuff up on top of it?
Accessing the back row is still a concern. Again, these are 6 children from 6 down to one, so varying degrees of help needed.
Tell me about front seats with airbags. DH says that the hype is re the USA whose airbags are a lot more vicious. At what age is it safe to put a child in a front seat with an airbag? Or not, as the case my be. I s'pose the question is, when is it more of a risk NOT to have the airbag than to have it? Really appreciate all the feedback.

lady, if the 2 oldest could scramble into the rear seats from the back you could probably manage - must say I wouldn't like to have to try to ooze in there with them and make sure their belts were fastened. (Oozing not my strong point!) But I think you're going to have a problem with the 3rd row even with one of the biggies - they're really not designed for adults to get to.

You could definitely fit an umbrella-style buggy in the space behind the seats. Not sure about a bulkier one.

Re the airbags - I really have no idea about safe age/size for a child in the front. DS2 is 10 and when he sits in the front I try to keep the seat as far back as poss. Your DH may well be right about US ones being more vicious but I'll have a google and see what I can find out.

oo-er - just found this:

Why are airbags dangerous for children?

Airbags were made to protect adults weighing about 75kg. They are very powerful when they are inflated and they are placed so low that a child placed in front of an airbag may suffocate or be severely injured by the impact of a rapidly inflating airbag.

If your child is younger than 12 years, they must never sit in a front-seat with an active airbag in front of them. When your child is over 12 and wants to sit in the front seat, move the seat as far back as possible.

A child seat must never be fitted in the front passenger seat if the car has a passenger side airbag. Some cars enable the driver to switch off the airbag. But it should be switched on again when an adult is using the seat.

That's from netdoctor . So apparently you shouldn't put an under-12 in the front at all - even with a seat or a booster. Oh.

OTOH:

The majority of airbags fitted to vehicles in Europe are intended to supplement protection provided by seat belts in frontal impacts. Typical European airbags are smaller, less energetic devices than airbags designed to protect drivers in North America who may not be belted. The design and function of North American airbags is, therefore, generally very different from airbags in Europe. North American airbags must deploy more rapidly and have a larger volume than typical European airbags in order to protect unbelted drivers. It is estimated that there have been over three million airbag deployments in the United States, and that over 3100 lives have been saved since 1986. However, a number of deaths in the United States have been attributed to airbags when drivers have been very close to the steering wheel at the instant of deployment. The majority of the fatal airbag casualties have been unbelted adults and children, or children in rear facing child restraints located behind a front passenger-side airbag. Rear facing child seats must never be used on a front passenger seat when any type of airbag is present ahead of that seat.

From Birmingham Automotive Safety Centre

We took delivery of a new company car today , Janh, so your posts are timely! I'll still be erring on the side of caution, though, as I just feel dd is safer in the back.

European airbags are still quite powerful. A friend had a bump in his car and the force of the airbag fractured his arm - he didn't have any other injuries!!

suedonim, I'm sure one of the sites I looked at last night actually gave a speed in mph for airbag deployment and it was in 3 figures. So I'm not surprised about the broken arm! I'll see if I can find it again.

Getting DS2 to go in the back all the time now, when he's been going in the front for years, will definitely cause trouble, but I may just let him read this stuff himself.

janh

The recommendation on our Renault is to always have kids under 12 in the back so that ties in with your info.

Janh since you are such a mine of information what about air bags and pregnant women. Both our cars are driver and passenger airbag types and when not pregnant I weigh a lot less than 75kg. I suppose as a passenger I should push the seat as far back as possible (might move DS's car seat to driver's side which is where it'll go when we have baby anyway) to enable this. But when I am driving (and I have a 20-odd mile commute) I have to have the seat pretty far forward (to the point where last time in late pregnancy the bump was pretty much right up to the steering wheel). Is this an issue? Or will the airbag tend to deploy more to the chest/face area?

Hi, bozza. This is the most helpful bit I could find (and it's not very, really, as you have to sit close to the wheel):

That's from babycentre .

Is the driver's airbag actually within the steering wheel? I think it must be. So the angle of the wheel (if it's adjustable) will make some difference to where the bag goes. I can't imagine that an airbag hitting your bump would do it any harm - better than the bump hitting the wheel anyway. And it would still keep your head and chest off the wheel.

babycentre came up with this too:

200 mph. Blimey.

Jings, 200mph?? That's amazing, Janh, no wonder they can cause injuries, whilst saving you from bigger ones.

lady, just to let you know that my 10 year old Previa just got through it's MOT for £57 !!

Thanks Janh - thats great. I talked about this to DH as well. Definitely in both cars driver's air bag is in steering wheel. DH reckons it is more directed and smaller (because of being closer) than passenger one. But of course with passenger one I can put seat well back. I will definitely be trying to adjust the seat according to the instructions - normally in DH's car I just move it forward until I can reach the pedals but there are all sorts of other adjustments I could do. Thanks again.