Latymer or Henrietta Barnett

[Magnificentkitteh]

My daughter seems to have a decent chance of getting into either of these schools. We are waiting for rank 2 results for Latymer but will never get these for Henrietta Barnett so need to decide which to put as first preference without knowing for sure if she has a place (we are just outside three miles).

They're both a fair journey away (50-60 mins on public transport) but I'm learning towards HBS on the basis that the journey is nicer (one bus and a walk across the Heath extension, or a 2 bus option to the door in bad weather, as opposed to a train and bus or bus and walk along a busy road), but that's fairly marginal.

Obviously one is a girls' school and I can't decide if that is a pro or a con. Dd1 goes to a girls' school but will move for 6th form. DD likes maths and I think Latymer leans towards maths- but so far she's less keen on science. She likes geography/countries and girls' football (though not at high level and could do this out of school).

My DS is at Latymer, although I don't hear much about it, as he's 15. But I've been pretty happy with it. It seems calm and well-ordered compared to DD's state comp. The kids I've met from Latymer have been lovely. The music provision is terrific and drama seems good too.

Cons - the surrounding area is not great and we get warnings from the school about kids needing to keep their phones out of sight while walking to the train station. It's also quite boy-heavy - I think a lot of girls go to City, HBS, Clapton etc which skews the balance.

DS went to Latymer albeit a while ago and we have friends at HBS - the latter is more intense and girls will be stretched more, it's an excellent environment for the right girl, our friends' DD love it. We had a long chat with one of the maths teachers and she's brilliant. The school is not big on sport though - some girls may be sporty (our friends' DD actually is) but I've seen one of the teams and it wasn't impressive. Girls also mentioned their least favourite subject was PE. I guess the families' priorities are different. Some girls do an unusual amount of exams or music - one girl told us she played 8 instruments including violin, as a parent of a musician I would question the quality of such playing but I guess that's how they like to stretch themselves. I'd say the demographic is very ambitious academically and maybe a bit quirky/geeky.

Latymer is not as pushy and feels more "normal" but still a very good school and we found them very supportive of DS's SEN needs (again, that was a while ago). I guess it may be an easier bet than HBS in terms of application priorities as it's less competitive, but I'm not 100% sure as we never had Latymer vs HBS dilemma. As for maths, DS is an autistic maths geek and it was the right school for him, he did lots of FM, olympiads etc and the school organised everything and was generally very pro-active.

Both schools are very STEM heavy so your DD will have to do lots of science as well as maths in any case.

Neither of them are big on football so you would need to do it outside of school.

Thank you, sounds like both could be a good fit for DD. She's not very musical and I don't want to over egg her interest in sports - it's just a club she currently enjoys, and she likes watching the women's football.

One factor I've been considering is that age could actually cut down the journey to HBS with a lime bike or similar when she's older (she's not keen on cycling at the moment) but Latymer will pretty much always be the same distance away

What was your gut feeling when visiting the schools? Did you have a preference then? If so put it top and see what happens.

My dd is at Hbs and has friends from her primary school at Latymer, so we know something of them both. So far Hbs has been very supportive and nurturing - lots of emphasis on wellbeing and encouraging the girls to be healthy, independent and motivated. Dd is loving that the lessons are more challenging than primary (she’s very able, but not geeky) and she says that the teachers have been friendly and kind. I like that the school don’t put any emphasis on test/exam results in ks3 and don’t report on them to parents, as they want the girls to focus on general improvement of their work, not on a score.

Dd and her Hbs friends say they haven’t noticed any poor behaviour, whereas her friends at Latymer have commented on disruptive and challenging behaviour in some classes - mainly from the boys, but then it’s just under 1/3 girls to 2/3 boys, so there are more boys to be a nuisance. There has been talk about punishments and isolations already at Latymer, whereas Hbs don’t even give detentions. I asked what happened if eg homework wasn’t done and they said they’d talk to the girl and try to work what the issue was and how to resolve it.

So we’re very happy with the choice we made, but it depends what environment you think would suit your dd, does she prefer mixed classes (mine was ready for a break from boys!) etc.

Thank you! That sounds lovely and reassuring. I don't really know what my gut feel is! I suppose at the open day I felt like Latymer might be more "normal" as a previous poster said - the standard of music etc at HBS was almost off puttingly good. But then when we went back for the round 2 test on a gorgeous sunny day it was so beautiful I felt really excited for her. And your post is really reassuring as I keep hearing HBS is v pushy etc. But DD likes a challenge so I hope would thrive in that environment. It's really just the journey that's daunting but it's an opportunity we won't get back so thinking of giving it a go.

It’s so hard isn’t it? I’d had more opportunities to see Latymer school and more chances to speak to the (lovely and dedicated seeming) teachers there. We’d definitely have been happy with either school, but out Hbs down first as a pipe dream - mainly as all girls and the area is better. I should have said - the friends dd has at Latymer are all really happy there, so I don’t think either school would be a bad choice.

When I’d already done the caf I had some of dd’s teachers say to me ‘oh no! Latymer is fine, but not Hbs! The girls are all so overworked and miserable!’ 🙄 which was really worrying, but that’s been the furthest thing from our experience so far!

My dd1 is at Latymer and although it is boy heavy - think her class is 19:13 - she hasn't been too affected by it and has a mixed group of friends.

I haven't heard of any one being put in isolation and don't recognize the description above about disruptive behaviour. There's obviously the odd child who misbehaves but compared to dd2's (all girls) comprehensive, the incidents seem few and far between.

Although they are known for STEM and 2/3 of them do Maths a level, other subjects seem good too and I've been particularly impressed with their language provision, with native speakers and exchanges.

Dd1 has really enjoyed the drama offering - they do plays every year, and lots of her friends are involved in the music events.

On the homework, pushy front, it's pretty light touch for the first 2-3 years but ramps up a lot in yr 10.

The area is rather unlovely though - but I don't think dd1 has ever felt unsafe there, I assume phone muggings happen all over London. There was a spate a couple of years ago but I haven't heard of any recently.

According to the Gvt stats Latymer is 56% boys so hardly two thirds.

That said, I'd go for HBS. On education boards, I think a keyboard shortcut for 'whichever is nearer' would be useful! Unless you've got really good reasons, always opt for the easier journey and that sounds like HBS, although there's not much in it.

I knew parents who had the choice of SHHS a five minute walk away and NLCS a long journey away for their 4-year-old. They chose the latter and I remember thinking what it could possibly offer to compensate for those two hours every day and fewer children nearby... you couldn't even argue that the poor child would end up with an extra 9 in her GSCEs in 10 years time.

I wouldn't be counting on the heath shortcut in the dark months but it does sound like a better option for you on paper, if she gets in. Both are good though and all schools send out warnings around phones in the area etc. There really isn't many big secondary schools immediately next to Latymer, it's just Aylward and lots of primary schools so its busy with adults picking up their kids at home time. People only comment on the safety of the area because it's a poor area. It's not anymore dangerous than Hackney or the city and the kids all stick together. I really don't think they get bothered by any of the local kids as they're known as they geeks that don't live around there.

According to the Gvt stats Latymer is 56% boys so hardly two thirds.

There was one recent cohort where the two thirds thing was true (now through the school and left though) and after that they made a big effort to attract more girls, and I believe also tweaked the nature of the entrance test slightly to make it more "girl-friendly".
It has had a female head for the last ten years (just retired) and she made it her mission to improve the ratio.

Thank you everyone. I've been invited to join a WhatsApp group for potential HBS families on another thread so maybe can chat journeys more on that when my request is approved.

St Mary Magdalene is a potential third option with a shorter journey if she does well in the aptitude test but it seems a shame to turn down the others now she's got this far. Though I do think the journeys will be a big downside. Dd1's school is walking distance and I do love that about it.

Yeah I think SMMA really wouldn't be a good swap for the other two even with the shorter journey.

If she hates the journey, she can always move for sixth form. I know lots of kids who've done that from Dame Alice, QEB etc. Sixth form is such a different kettle of fish.

Based on what I’ve heard about both schools, I’d go with Latymer. I didn’t love that the boys-to-girls ratio is so uneven, but apart from that, it feels like a much more balanced and diverse school overall.

HBS, on the other hand, seems quite heavily represented by one ethnicity (which happens to be mine too), but I genuinely believe that diversity is healthy and enriching for everyone. I also spoke to a few parents whose daughters attend HBS, and they came across as extremely competitive. I don’t think we could ever be that competitive as a family, and neither could my very capable daughter. Ofcourse there will be lovely non-competitive parents there as well.

I’m sure all the girls there are wonderful, but with most of them travelling over an hour each way and such a strong focus on academics at home, I worried that our daughter wouldn’t get much of a social life. I would also recommend googling hbs past experiences, some hbs girls have shared quite candid and balanced reflections.

All the best @Magnificentkitteh , I know it’s a tough decision. I know you from another thread (my name changed) and wish nothing but the best for your daughter ❤️.

Thank you! This is the dilemma I suppose. I'm not very competitive, though DD can be. We also are not of the same ethnicity as the majority at HBS, though don't really see that as an issue in itself.

Ps I saw the ANA from the forner HBS pupil. I thought she was quite balanced though it was useful in terms of going beyond the hype. I guess a pupil at dd1's school or my own would have quite a lot to say too.

Yes, I thought she was quite good on the thread. And honestly don’t know why everyone was being so rude to her! She was so good about it though.
There are some threads on Reddit as well. And on student room. Happy for you to message me as well - since I have thought about it a lot!

Yes it was uncomfortable to watch everyone being so awful to a young woman only trying to share her experience with those who might find it helpful.

We aren’t either, if that helps. I think that a friendly, well behaved and motivated cohort is more important than people’s ethnicity.

She's got a confirmed place at St Mary Magdalene now as well.

Sounds like you are sorted than. 3 great options. You won't be disappointed in any of them. St M is great for high achievers.

Very useful thread! Might sound a bit off topic but does anyone feel that HBS offers more of the non-academic development (confidence, public speaking, creativity) than other grammars?

What I am trying to ask is why is HBS the best school? Is it onky tge grades? That part I understand that if you select the top performing to join school, they will perform well anyways (and anywhere).

We are in the dilemma of choosing between a local grammar which is in top 20's v/s HBS (for which we will eventually move once/if admission confirmed). It is just that knot in the throat thinking our daughter was good enough to get in and we as guardians denied her that privilege!!(no heavy tutoring at all, just taught by dad at home).

Such a hard hard decision, any words of wisdome welcome.

@Crazymomma101 You indeed are crazy momma 101 if you'd move away from a top 20 grammar for HBS! That's ludicrous.

I know it sounds crazy and that is why we have not made the decision but it is a well known fact that people do move for HBS ( I will only be moving from Zone 3 anyways as we already live in greater London).
It's just that I am hoping to connect to people who declined HBS despite getting an offer for anything other than private school.

I don't think many people move if they have a top 20 grammar on their doorstep tbh! The difference would be so small that the stress of moving would most likely offset any marginal gains you'd make. Plus the top 20 rankings change a lot. HBS isn't always top etc.

Which rankings are you talking about? When was the last time that HBS didn't have the highest GSCE and A Level results of girls state schools? Or, for that matter, any state schools around London that accept girls?