London grammar and private senior school entry 2025

[CruCru]

Hi all

It doesn’t look as though one of these threads has been set up yet so I thought I’d do it.

I have a daughter going into year 6 and a son going into year 8 next month - both will be moving to senior school in 2025.

Sorry @Choccybuttonsandprosecco ... no idea why that came up in bold rather than replying to you!

Yes there is definitely still a lot of tutuoring in senior school. I was quite shocked. My son said some of his friends have a tutor/mentor every night who oversea all of their workload. It was insane during the GCSE's period as boys had tutors for different subjects. Tutors were advertised on the class WhatsApp. This a top London school. I saw in the Good Schools Guide it mentions the parents complaining at FHSS that there was too much tutoring. No wonder they have gone up so much in the league tables. The schools really should do more to prevent it but the boys are too embarrased to access the school provision and admit they need help. But I guess the schools are utimately responsible as they are the ones who set the exam bar so high you need a tutor to get in. Maybe they want the tutored kids! Makes their lives a lot easier.

I have a dd at one of the girls schools mentioned and many of her friends are tutored. She’s still among the top without tutoring, having come from a state primary, which she knows she has achieved from her own hard work. The tears from all the tutored girls when they don’t do well enough on tests is insane, there is so much pressure from home to be the best and to get into the top unis, hence the tutoring. And if I were a child it would tell me that my parents don’t believe I am intelligent enough to succeed on my own. It’s very sad. These schools cost so much already, I wish parents would give their tutoring fees to charity instead of using it to try to get their girls ahead of where they naturally should be. At some point in life these girls will have to stand on their own two feet and hold down a degree and jobs without being handheld and prepped, which will come as a shock. Exam results are such a small part of succeeding in life, and yet so many parents seem to sacrifice everything, including wellbeing, in their pursuit.

@SamPoodle123 Thank you for your reply. It did seem very busy when they wrote but i know it was 13+ aswell. I agree! Wish they all could let the kids know before Christmas! We haven't found out any yet as the schools applied to all send out interviews in January. Its been a stressful wait. Still have one exam in January aswell. Can't wait for it all to be over!
Have you found out any yet?

I wonder if they do take the application inforamtion and references into account for interview offers or if that is only later on for actual offers?

This is an eye opener, we don't intend to tutor DS in secondary, we have done 1hr tutoring in English and 1hr maths to prepare for the 11+ during year 5 and first term of year 6. We could support at home especially if he decides to go down the science/maths route....but he needs to study independently. I am not paying the hefty fees to handhold him with tutoring throughout school, this would do more harm than good in the long term. We also disregarded sending him to a prep school when everyone said they had private tutors on top of it, it's a matter of principles

Ah thanks for the info!! That is a relief. It must be the coeds then that have the higher numbers. Latymer was over 1350! How many do you think go on to interview for kings?

@SamPoodle123 - no idea re interview numbers I'm afraid!
Remember KCS has more of an overlap with Tiffin and other grammars as well due to its locality so there will be more boys choosing between it and the grammars than say Westminster.

Not everyone is tutored, but a certain tranche are and they tend to be looked down on by the others. Especially as they don’t usually get better marks. If your child needs tutoring to keep up then they’re in the wrong school.

@W4mumoftwo - don't worry about the scale of tutoring. There is always a group of parents who are happy to throw money at everything to get their children to where they think they should be- regardless of whether it's the right thing! They will probably try to handhold through university and jobs as well- which isn't the greatest idea! And yes, I know children who haven't been allowed to do drama, lots of sport etc because they have to go to Maths school, Russian School, tutors etc etc. it generally just causes resentment if they don't want to go but are forced into it.
Except for a few special cases, if a child is in a top academic school and needs tutors to get good GCSE grades, they are in the wrong school. At my DCs schools they will have extra help offered if they seem to be struggling in a subject, that's what you're paying for! ( and at many state school as well).

Slight crossed post with @givemesomewineplease !

It isnt true that all kids or many kids are tutored for gcse or A-level(my elder child goes to Westminster school). None of her friends at top table needs tutoring for A level, or no one she knows of. 11+ is completely different though especially if both parents are working long hours(office base) and the child goes to state school. I know of many parents tutor their kids for 11+ themself and dont call it tutoring, which I find it another extreme.

I don’t know of anyone who is routinely tutored at secondary school. There may be a certain subject (often languages) which as pupils get closer to exams they need more support and this where a tutor comes in handy. I know I had a bit of maths tutoring at a-level. Don’t get the impression it is rife at all.

Ds has an interview for Latymer and Harrodian. We find out Emanuel, Dulwich and Kings in Jan.

I think they first base off scores, if you make the cut....then they look at the other stuff when you go to interview.

I suspect that the schools who don’t send out the invitations to interview until mid January look at the references as well as the test scores before doing so. Otherwise it would be straightforward to take a cut of all the test scores and offer interviews to the top x% performers (particularly when it is only a computerised exam).

Yes CruCru that would be great if they did that. I guess Latymer can afford to be brutal by cutting on a test score on one day as they have so many applicants to choose from. Do you think the schools talk to each other as well? Decide who they are taking through and who might accept based on the other schools they have applied too? The girls Consortium and GDST schools must be able to easily share data?

Regarding tutoring I think you have to do what is best for your child but just be prepared for the London madness especially if your child goes to a more central London school and you have been rather sheltered previously in state school. I've also been surprised by the amount of alcohol/vaping/drug use and generally disruptive/bullying type behaviour. Teenagers are all the same I guess whether they are at private or state school.

They're not allowed to share any data- GDPR etc. they probably have informal discussions about number of applicants etc but absolutely no discussion of individual candidates.

I suspect that sharing data on individual candidates may break some data protection rules (but it’s been a while since I had to know much about those).

I would think that those schools where nearly everyone accepts will take more time in deciding who to interview. Those where they know that a fair chunk who are made offers to will go elsewhere need to cast their net a bit wider.

Completely anecdotally (!) but friends outside London seem to have far more of the vaping/ drinking/ party problems. Boarding schools in particular are a whole other world. I don't think the London kids are any better or worse. There is a small group of 'party kids' at each school and they all tend to know each other. Depends whether your child hangs out with them or not. Basically avoid Wandsworth Common!

Yes I'm sure teenagers are the same all over!

I hope you’re all having a lovely Christmas.

I am pondering the interviews that are coming up. One of the schools has said that, if she wears school uniform (she does), please can she wear that to the interview. Which is fine (and easy).

The other schools are silent on what she should wear. The interviews are before she goes back to school so perhaps leggings and a nice (ish) top? Maybe not jeans. Ideally something that is comfortable and doesn’t raise any eyebrows. My daughter pretty much lives in jeans, leggings and shorts when not in uniform so doesn’t have many smart outfits. The smart outfits she does have are not suitable for an interview. Or am I overthinking this?

Been lurking (and stressing!) but now have 4 interviews in one week….!

re uniform, if on a weekday and she’ll be at school we are going to go in full uniform. If a non-school day (ie Saturday) we are going smart casual. She’s already had one on a Saturday and most kids were not in uniform, and mainly wore jeans and smart tops or jumpers. Our daughter wore jeans and then a plain wool jumper from Uniqlo and it didn’t look out of place. A few did turn up in full uniform though so I think either is fine.

@CruCru I have the same questions, but for a boy. He generally wears football kit or hoodies when he isn’t in school uniform. Any tips for a good outfit for a boy? When my daughter went through this she wore school uniform or a casual dress with a jumper she already owned and liked.

Same, but he does have jeans and some nice sweaters, so we will go with that probably. If they can wear uniform, I go with that because it is easiest. But Latymer said there is no need to wear school uniform and should dress comfortably, so I feel like they prefer kids not to wear uniform.

What planet are you on - they just don't admit to it particularly now a lot of private tutoring is done online over zoom.