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Original poster

In a class of 30 doing GCSE Art, how many would you expect to get 7,8 or 9?

70 replies

RollsBapsCobs · 03/05/2024 19:01

My daughter did Art for GCSEs. She did the exam yesterday and today and the teacher suggested she will get a grade 6.
My daughter (not the sort to brag) believes she is one of the best in the class of 30 at Art and works really hard at it.
It it sounds like nobody will get more than a grade 6.
Does that seem unusual to you?

I guess I'm just wondering if my daughter's teacher is a particularly hard marker or maybe Art is quite difficult at GCSE level.
My daughter wants to do it for A level but I'm not sure it's wise choice if she gets a 6 at GCSE.
(I do understand a sample of students work is checked by someone external.)

OP posts:
theresnolimits · 04/05/2024 19:14

Gosh, I’m really surprised at this. In my school art was always the highest performing A level and one of the highest at GCSE. That’s because at GCSE it is an option and no one took it unless they were good at it and enjoyed it.

In my subject (English Lang and Lit) as core GCSEs, everyone had to take them whether they could do it or not. So we scored much more poorly than subjects like art.

I’m now going to revisit this because maybe we just had amazing art teachers judging by their results. All that time complaining and saying ‘It’s all right for Art/Tech/ PE/MFL … of course they do well as no one would choose to do them unless they were good at them’.

mactire · 04/05/2024 19:17

I taught primary but I’ve taught primary classes where the ‘strongest’ might only be average when compared to the national standard.

strongest in a class doesn’t mean anything useful, really. Big fish, small pond.

123anotherday · 04/05/2024 21:43

as someone else has said, there is a lot more to art gcse than artistic ability!

GHGN · 04/05/2024 22:02

In my school, a cohort of around 50 kids normally get 55-60% grade 9, the rest are 7 and 8 with a couple of 6 every year. It is only taken by very keen students.

clary · 04/05/2024 22:21

of course they do well as no one would choose to do them unless they were good at them

@theresnolimits you might choose a subject bc you liked it. Or bc there was nothing you liked and this was the least worst, or you thought it might be the easiest. Weaker students have to choose options too. I've taught MFL GCSE to students who weren't very good at any school subject sadly.

Tho i agree English is a challenge as all must do it and there are no tiers now.

ladyvimes · 04/05/2024 22:24

Totally depends on the cohort. One class on year May have a lot of more able pupils and some more mixed ability. Happens with year groups too. National quotas are only applicable to the nation as a whole and not a class of 30.

Fizbosshoes · 04/05/2024 23:28

clary · 04/05/2024 22:21

of course they do well as no one would choose to do them unless they were good at them

@theresnolimits you might choose a subject bc you liked it. Or bc there was nothing you liked and this was the least worst, or you thought it might be the easiest. Weaker students have to choose options too. I've taught MFL GCSE to students who weren't very good at any school subject sadly.

Tho i agree English is a challenge as all must do it and there are no tiers now.

I remember in my school there were some (maybe 15) kids who seemed to just muck about in most lessons.
They chose RE, art, and design and technology - not because they were particularly gifted at those but
RE - because the teachers weren't able to control the class and didn't give detentions
Ditto design and tech
Art - because they thought it would be easy (and - to a degree you can spend as little or as long as you like on a piece) But it is obvious at exhibition time the pieces that have been done in half an hour and the ones that have taken hours.

Spirallingdownwards · 04/05/2024 23:33

RollsBapsCobs · 03/05/2024 19:01

My daughter did Art for GCSEs. She did the exam yesterday and today and the teacher suggested she will get a grade 6.
My daughter (not the sort to brag) believes she is one of the best in the class of 30 at Art and works really hard at it.
It it sounds like nobody will get more than a grade 6.
Does that seem unusual to you?

I guess I'm just wondering if my daughter's teacher is a particularly hard marker or maybe Art is quite difficult at GCSE level.
My daughter wants to do it for A level but I'm not sure it's wise choice if she gets a 6 at GCSE.
(I do understand a sample of students work is checked by someone external.)

She isn't judged against the rest of her class though. She is marked against a mark scheme and against a national cohort.
She may be the best but still only achieving a level 6. At another school a student may be the worst in that class and get a 6 because others are better.

Spirallingdownwards · 04/05/2024 23:36

greglet · 04/05/2024 18:52

Well, in the school I know best, last year 69% of pupils got a 9, 27% got an 8 and 4% got a 7. Cohort of around 50.

I would hazard a guess at this being a selective school.

Brotchen · 04/05/2024 23:40

It's actually quite hard to get a 9 in any art GCSE subject

This is because the teacher has to mark it

Her marks then get assessed by an external examiner and if they consistently over mark they get in trouble

Therefore they make sure it's bang on

The external examiner will increase the mark as necessary

Ilovelurchers · 04/05/2024 23:41

It would very much depend on the school - % 7-9 grades do vary massively school to school, so it's hard to generalise.

I did used to line manage the head of the art department when I was an assistant head in a school, and I have to say it seemed to me (a total lay-person with no artistic background or skill) that the standard required even to get a C grade (as it was then) was exceptionally high. It's one of the reasons I am currently tempted to discourage my KS3 daughter from pursuing art when she comes to pick her options. She is decent at drawing but not exceptional, and I just think she would do better in other subjects, as art seems so very difficult. It's the same with music - or always used to be anyway.

Brotchen · 04/05/2024 23:46

My DD was expecting an 8

She only got a 7

She was upset

Even her A level teachers said she definitely deserved an 8 if not a 9

There was even an external examiner who kept it at a 7

She's been told she's on track for at least an A for the same A Level art subject

Its not an easy area to get an 8 or 9 in unless your teacher has been generous and your school didn't get an external examiner to check the mark.

Brotchen · 04/05/2024 23:53

I just think what a shit teacher if you keep telling a student they're on track for an 8 or 9 and then you mark them as a 7

What sort of crappy teaching is that if you can physically see with your own eyes what bloody art work they're doing

I found it incomprehensible really

shepherdsangeldelight · 05/05/2024 11:59

greglet · 04/05/2024 18:52

Well, in the school I know best, last year 69% of pupils got a 9, 27% got an 8 and 4% got a 7. Cohort of around 50.

Selective school?

in DC's school there is a large proportion of DC who don't get as high as a 7 in anything.

Another point to throw into the variance mix is how the school enables selection of options. At DC's school the option blocs are such that you have to select at least one "creative" option - which means students selecting art who might have otherwise swerved it.

VillageGreenPS · 05/05/2024 12:18

It's not just raw artistic skill that gains top grades. You have to also be able to explain your work, show experimentation and understanding of what makes a piece successful, linking it to the work of other artists, and record all of this too. This much work takes a huge amount of time and commitment.

TizerorFizz · 05/05/2024 17:12

My DD did old GCSE art and got a B. Very loose teaching and little direction. Changed school for A levels. Huge huge difference. Fantastic teachers who taught techniques. Not just endless experimenting. All areas were properly taught, including all the writing up. DD got A for art and Astar for photography. Yes, she spent a lot of time doing art but with first class teaching it was a pleasure.

Xray83 · 05/05/2024 17:56

Last year, the highest grades in my ds were 6s. Art teacher said they've made the criteria so hard to get a really high grade.

DramaLlamaBangBang · 05/05/2024 18:26

My DS is predicted a 6 in art, and the teacher told him he has to touch up his portfolio over this weekend and he could get higher. He said he's 'the worst artist in the class' but his work looks pretty good to me, and he is a bit of a fatalistic when it comes to art. It has taken him hours and hours to do the portfolio. It's a massive PITA and he hasn't enjoyed it at all. It seems to be designed to suck all spontaneity and creativity out of children. The saddest thing is that, from when he was a child, he used to draw. I have books upon books of beautiful pen drawings he did. Now, he doesn't pick up a pencil if it's not for his art gcse, he doesn't want to do A Level and its completely put him off a career he had wanted to do for a long time. It's his least favourite subject, which really is saying something!

TizerorFizz · 05/05/2024 18:52

My DD didn’t like GCSE but you cannot do art and just expect to draw. There IS more to it than that. Lots of dc don’t realise it but the good teachers persuade them how important the written notes are. If they want to do art at uni it’s even more important. The portfolio isn’t just a few drawings and nothing else. It really requires greater depth of thought. DD did a portfolio during y13 A levels too. If you went this career, you have to do what’s required. Not what you like. A level can be much more creative.

SauronsArsehole · 05/05/2024 19:04

7+ I’d say the top 20% of the class have a chance with that.

with art there’s contextualising your own work, even at GCSE (I remember it well!) and that pushes you into higher grades. So it’s not just your own artistic talent that’s required.

I did a drawing for my final piece whereas everyone else did really out there stuff and I was looked down on by my peers for that choice. I’d done all my experimenting and mixed media work all through my sketchbooks and test pieces and just couldn’t get them to work and I wrote about why in my sketchbook and that I’d go back to drawing.

I know others on the class were shocked and frustrated I’d got the A just for a sketch and they did paintings etc and got Bs and Cs but it was my supporting work and reasoning that got me there.

MrsBurtMacklin · 05/05/2024 19:05

I have 30 in my art GCSE cohort this year. Grade boundaries won't be released for a while, but I think I have 4 grade 9s, 3 grade 8s, 5ish grade 7s and the rest are grades 5 and 6. I might have 2 v weak/low attending students at grade 3 or 4.
I teach at one of the worst performing schools in the county, v deprived area etc. Our art results are much better than every other subject. Yes there's lots of work that goes into their coursework and exam and students have to show experimentation etc, but all my top performers come into the art room at lunch times, break times, after school etc to work on their projects. They take advice on how to improve and do a lot at home too. I do have to give lots of 1-1 attention to the students too, outside of normal classes, in holidays etc.

6 is a good grade and you cannot get a 6 without doing a lot of work. If she's the strongest in the class and no one else gets above a 6... I don't know. I don't think my line manager would be v pleased and would say I'm not doing enough to push the more able. However offering extra time to students in holidays and after school isn't compulsory as a teacher.

greglet · 05/05/2024 19:11

Yes it's a selective school, but I'd think pretty poorly of a school where basically no pupils were getting a solid number of 7-9s. It would suggest either poor teaching, poor attitudes to learning from a majority of pupils, a low ability intake or a mixture of those factors, so it's not a school I'd be happy for my own children to attend.

shepherdsangeldelight · 05/05/2024 20:07

greglet · 05/05/2024 19:11

Yes it's a selective school, but I'd think pretty poorly of a school where basically no pupils were getting a solid number of 7-9s. It would suggest either poor teaching, poor attitudes to learning from a majority of pupils, a low ability intake or a mixture of those factors, so it's not a school I'd be happy for my own children to attend.

There's a huge range between the very high results (not unexpectedly) from that selective school and getting no 7-9s at all.

I've just checked the results for my DD's school (for those who don't know, you can download this data from the gov uk schools website - which might be interesting for OP to do for her school and maybe others she knows for comparison). Last year there were 2 9s, 3 8s and 4 7s. and 152 took the Art GCSE. That's a much lower proportion of top grades than other subjects, specifically because the vast majority of those taking it are lower ability students. So in a mixed class of 30, that would be about 2 students getting 7-9. I'm not sure judging a school on its Art results alone means very much ...

TizerorFizz · 05/05/2024 21:08

The writing required for art GCSE isn’t a terribly hard and onerous thing though. It does require research. That’s probably the difficult bit and self evaluation. I don’t see why art is taken by lower ability either. It’s maybe seen as unimportant against the stem push. Sadly.

App13 · 05/05/2024 21:18

28 yrs ago , goodness me. I was possibly the 2nd best artist in the school, that went to do A level Art and got an unconditional place at St Martins college of Art. I got a B at GCSE. As were impossible then and Bs rare too.