How to under Ofsted and parent view

[Lieger]

*Edit - messed up the title. I mean understand, obviously!

We’re looking at two schools for DS for 2025. Both have recent Ofsted reports:

• School 1 is outstanding, but less popular with parents (80% recommend on parent view, parents have some issues with bullying)
• School 2 is Ofsted good but gets glowing feedback on parent view (as an example, 96% would recommend)

I find reading the actual reports is difficult - it’s like they’re written in a code I don’t really understand. Can anyone help explain why a school would be more popular with Ofsted than with parents and vice versa?

"Schools definitely want a collaborative approach but also have to accept judgements might not be what they want to hear."

Yes, in a well led schools the judgement should not come as too much of a surprise. Schools do a lot of self-evaluation.

There has been a lot of online chatter about how the current framework makes it harder to get "outstanding", but no chatter that I've seen about how it makes it easier for some RI schools to get "good" if they are well led but have an unstable cohort (undersubscribed, with lots of movement in every year group). Under the previous framework they were unfairly stymied by their progress data, but now they aren't. (Shame they're still stymied by budget and staff recruitment issues though). There's a school near me in this category that achieved a well deserved Good rating for the first time in its history under the new framework, despite having results that are well below average.

@shivermatimbas Being obsessed with Outstanding doesn’t help either.

I see the government is sticking to one word judgements. Obviously some commentators are furious. I actually think it’s a diversion from the bigger debate about how inspections are carried out and the breadth of the inspection so parents perhaps get a bit more info. I see no one has taken me up on the challenge to provide Ofstedspeak. Most reports I read seem clear and probably too short!

We have a couple of predominantly forces schools near me. Both are good but previously one was outstanding. They get some pp money though but see less stability than most schools.

"I see no one has taken me up on the challenge to provide Ofstedspeak"

Possibly because it would identify the school.

@Lieger have you looked to see if the good schools guide has reviewed said schools?

Schools have to pay for that.

Honestly - ignore Ofsted. Look at exam results, talk to parents and students. Visit the school and get a feel for it. I’m a teacher with 30 years’ experience and three children if my own and think Ofsted is incompetent at best and damaging at worst.

@shivermatimbas no they don't. The guide decides which schools it includes & writes up the review independently. School has no veto on content and can choose to buy a licence to use for their own marketing purposes, or not.

I don’t trust my feelings. I’m very swayed by facilities and how smart they are! And in fact only the ‘good’ school will let you visit during the school day. The other one only has open evenings.

@Lieger maybe there's your answer.. the outstanding one sounds arrogant at best

@shivermatimbas If it’s Ofsted speak it’s surely phrases used in every report! It won’t out any school. Certainly “sequenced curriculum” is a buzz phrase. Other posters have said Ofsted reports are confusing because of language used. I don’t find this, so I’m interested in what confuses pps. I am beginning to think the complaints are merely anti Ofsted rhetoric.

I'd agree with this. My DD's school was previously marked RI and is now good. However one difference I have noticed as a parent at parents' evening for example is that the teachers are much more aware of WHAT my DD needs to do with our support to progress. She's one of their borderline cases, I.e. they have a much better handle on their data. Either that, or they've just got a lot better over the past few years at communicating what they have always known to us and Ofsted!

For me they are more confusing because they are not written in a systematic way. The points made in the reports sometimes seem a bit random. They all contain some positives and some negatives and don't give you a clear way of comparing one school to another. Two local schools I know are both described in various positive ways regarding teaching, but it is well-known that the quality of teachers at one is significantly better than at the other and you would have no idea from reading the reports.

Another school I have looked has many positive points made about the teaching and no negative points, but it was not described as outstanding for teaching. So you wonder what has been left out.

I'd like the reports to be much more structured, with the same themes reported for every school (e.g. teacher training, delivery, curriculum design) and each having a one line comment for pros and a one line comment for cons (or no cons if the school is fabulous).

There is no category for teaching. Therefore outstanding wont necessarily be a description because it’s “quality of education”. Therefore curriculum, teacher knowledge, quality of lessons, assessment and just about everything else comes into this. In my view, this section is way too small. Curriculum and quality of learning should be separate sections at the very least.

I also agree the reports can feel repetitive.

Behaviour is almost too big! I would link it in with personal development. There’s also no separate SEN but maybe this identifies dc too much? However if 40% are fsm and/or sen is high, parents want to know what provision is like. Is PP money having an impact?

Leadership is key in my view. I also don’t think a school should be Outstanding if leadership and quality of education are not both outstanding. I’m not sure if that’s the case anyway but of course inspection isn’t an exact science.

What parents think about teaching in different schools doesn’t really matter. To be honest, they aren’t in the schools to judge. Ofsted aren’t sampling enough lessons or work by DC in schools either. I do think more of this work and letting parents know if the Improvement plan is robust and on track would be useful. The reports are too short now and need more info in key areas. However teachers won’t want this!

@Lieger , "it is well-known that the quality of teachers at one is significantly better than at the other and you would have no idea from reading the reports"

Ofsted no longer grade individual lessons or teachers, so there is no way for this to be demonstrated in a report.

In my school, when lessons are observed internally, they are now rated as secure or insecure. The latter may result in some intervention. We no longer use the Ofsted gradings.

Teacher 'quality' is subjective and transient and impacted by many factors If a school has strong stable leadership, and a good reputation, it will generally attract good staff who want to stay. But if the staffing structure is too stable, the good-but-younger staff may need to leave if they want to progress. Often it is the limitations of school budgets that will force out good staff who are looking for greater responsibility.

Parents set so much store by the one-word evaluation and exam results because this is the clearest information we get. But there are all these other complexities that we are not privy to. I'd like Ofsted to be reporting on things like this - what is teacher retention like? Teacher knowledge? Are maths lessons being taught by PE teachers? How engaged are the kids? Are they excited by what they're learning? Are the teachers still keen or are they burnt out and waiting to retire? How good are they at adapting for the highest attainers (never seems to be mentioned by Ofsted, only SEN)?

I agree that there is insufficient emphasis on the quality of education/curriculum.

But those things change so much it would be silly to put them in an Ofsted that happens every 5 years if you're lucky. Those things should all be good if leadership is good. Teacher recruitment isn't really the schools fault atm...

There are separate judgements for quality of education and leadership, which suggests that leadership alone is not everything. I agree it's not necessarily schools' fault but it's still important and relevant to parents.

I didn't say leadership alone is everything but it is the biggest deciding factor for the issues you raised.
And as another poster said, quality of education will encompass the things you've mentioned too.
Also, you can find answers to some of those questions by looking at the data on gov website. You can break down results by prior attainment and SEN.
My point really is that your questions are incredibly specific and it would just not be viable to put them on a report. Also, it would be ridiculously stupid to base your school choice on the OFSTED report only, bearing in mind it's not exactly done annually, so even if it did include all those things you want, they would be out of date really quickly.

Any school that won't let you look around on a normal school day is hiding stuff in my opinion. Most schools will love to show you around. I think you are way overthrowing this OP and you need to just go for the "Good" school.

"what is teacher retention like?"
Keep an eye on their vacancies page, or set up a job alert on eTeach/TES so you're notified when they advertise. But bear in mind that good schools manage out low quality staff (after attempts to address the issue through training of course).

"Teacher knowledge? "
Engage them in conversation at open evenings. e.g. ask the head of physics "where did you do your physics degree" and see if they say "actually, I did biology".

"Are maths lessons being taught by PE teachers?"
Almost certainly. This is very common. But so long as they have a maths A level and are a good teacher you shouldn't panic. Ask the students at the open evening if they enjoy maths.

"How engaged are the kids? Are they excited by what they're learning?"
That's the sort of thing the ofsted visit likes to cover, but they're only there a couple of days, visit a few lessons, and talk to a few kids.

"Are the teachers still keen or are they burnt out and waiting to retire?"
Try and talk to as many of them as possible at the open evening

"How good are they at adapting for the highest attainers"
I think you can filter the results for this on:
https://www.gov.uk/school-performance-tables
Also, search the school website to see if they have any initiatives for more able students.

When you've done all that, if you still want to know more, ask to see their governors' minutes - they're public documents so the school office should be able to supply them.

OP, you have to go with what feels right for you and your DC but, personally speaking, bullying is a red flag for me, irrespective of the Ofsted rating.

I don’t think it’s difficult to record staff turnover. Lots of organisations do as a measure to aid improvement to employment practices and retention. I don’t see why schools don’t do this. Ofsted certainly do comment on turbulence in staffing but don’t give a turnover percentage. They have commented on the over use of supply teachers in the past. Not sure about now. However it’s relevant.

I’ve seen comments about sufficiently challenging high attainers, or not. I’ve also seen comments on good, or not good, teacher knowledge. Given rhe data published by the government answers quite a few questions, I’m wondering if the data should be linked to the narrative as they need to be read together?

If challenging high attainers (for example) is something Ofsted comment on, they should comment on it in every report. Otherwise it’s a random mishmash and you’ve no idea whether it’s not mentioned because it’s fine, or because they didn’t think of it, or they didn’t notice or whatever.

I think it should all be linked and clear and transparent. Some sort of pack that lays it all out. The vast majority of parents do not or can not find, interpret and assimilate all the sources of information.

They don’t always comment on high attainers but do comment if the curriculum or teaching practices don’t meet their needs. Tends to be a negative as opposed to a positive. I’ve also seen “published outcomes are exceptionally high” in relation to achievement. However this rather backs up the point that parents have to look elsewhere for them.

I do think it’s difficult to compare schools in a systematic way that covers all bases as there are too many variables. A handbook seems a great idea!

I forgot: or the data attached to the report that Ofsted used with a link to the most recent data if referring to a previous year. The bigger is where schools haven’t been inspected for a decade. Only data is relevant then and the old report might be totally unreliable.