Schools in Richmond and Kingston area

[GentleMintCat]

Seeking Advice: Moving to Kingston/Richmond Area - School Choices and Neighborhood Recommendations

Dear all,

We're considering to move to the Kingston/Richmond area and could really use some advice from you about schools and neighborhoods. As I developed asthma recently, greener and cleaner areas with good local schools and communities are priority. However, not too high-end as we are looking to rent.

My daughter is in year four, so I look for primary and secondary schools. Catchment areas for both are making it even more tricky. So, your insight and recommendations would make big difference. For me great extracurricular activities and focus on sports, creative subjects, emotional wellbeing is more important than constantly achieving A+.

In this light, I also want to ask about Tiffin's Girls to understand if this could be an option fo us.

My daughter while quite strong academically and very competitive in sports, especially tennis and athletics, she's a bit shy, too polite sometimes, in large settings she might need reassurance for confidence boost. Currently, she's in a very small school and feels happy there. If anyone could comment what is overall atmosphere at Tiffin's, friendly or too competitive? Are girls supportive? Being allways under high pressure for A+, can be unhealthy. I wonder how school is balancing this? Also, it's such a large school, do they take good care of individual needs?

Thanks so much for your help! Your advice will really make a difference as we figure out our next move.

Hello. Best be clear what your budget is for renting as both areas are extremely expensive to rent… upwards of 2k per calendar month for a small terrace house…that would enable posters to give better advice. Kingston probably slightly cheaper but not much in it to be honest

If I were you I'd dry to move next door to waldegrave

Thank you for your reply. I put waldegrave in my list. Can you tell me a bit more please from your own experience. 🙏

@GentleMintCat have you tried searching for previous threads on this? There are quite a lot. Maybe restrict your search to recent threads e.g. from the last year, because things do change over time. You can do that with "Advanced Search".

@GentleMintCat Tiffin is extremely competitive to get into. Maybe you were being modest when you were saying that your DD is 'quite strong' academically? Your DD will need to be very strong academically to get in - there are 180 places and allegedly 3000 - 5000 applicants. Tiffin doesn't take any account of sports - it's academically selective.

'Greener/cleaner'.
Leave London.

Grey Court in Ham is very good for Sport - and Ham is cushioned by Richmond Park on one side and the river on two sides. But like everywhere in the area it’s under the flightpath

But like everywhere in the area it’s under the flightpath

There are flight paths and flight paths. Being under the incoming flight path for 12 hours a day (e.g. East Sheen, Kew, Isleworth) is a lot worse than being under one of the many departing flight paths that fan out in all directions over the borough on days when the wind is in a certain direction. We don't often notice it where we are (Hampton Hill).

We do, however, notice our beautiful parks, riverside walks etc, so it's definitely greener than many other London boroughs.

Got your point! 😅 I'd love to, but I can't. So greener and cleaner compared to other parts.

Thank you for the comment. I know how selective they are, but I'm more interested how they balance this high academic pressure with pastoral care? What is atmosphere, etc...
She is strong academically and we can put effort to prepare her, but I want to understand if this is a right choice for her? I'm not after constant A+, on the contrary, I believe it's not natural, can be unhealthy.

Sorry, wrong comment I choose with the previous quote.

Thank you, this is very helpful, constant incoming flights can be unbearable.

@GentleMintCat , Tiffin girls is 1 of the top performing girls schools in the uk, it's in the top 30 uk schools for Oxbridge offers including private/ mixed schools etc. If your dd achieves a place then she will be fine to keep up with the academic pressure. The tricky part is getting a place. If academic pressure doesn't appeal to you then focus on a house very near Waldegrave school.

The main complaint I heard about Tiffin Girls is mental health and poor pastoral care. Otherwise, all praises.
Honestly, this is not a school for a sensitive girl. I am not a fortuneteller but if she is quite academic she may not get in. I know very very academic girls, top of the primary Richmond school who attended all year tutoring who didn't get in.
Most of the girls who get in are under a huge pressure. In any comprehensive they would be top stars ⭐ of the school. But at Tiffin they are mediocre pupils who are not in a position to compete with prodigy kids who also got in. Most of the kids are heavely tutored all along the school to keep up the pace because they got in thanks to hothousing and extensive tutoring.
I would not do that to my child. Their self esteem, confidence matter far more than a school. I would not like my kid to do self harm or becoming anorectic because she feel worse .

I'm not after constant A+, on the contrary, I believe it's not natural, can be unhealthy.

So why you even consider Tiffin school? Have you seen their GCSE results? If you don't have A* or A they will not praise you there and put a lot of pressure to perform better. This is super superselective grammar school and not a grammar school as you have in Kent or Bucks where 25 perc of kids get in. To Tiffin Girls get much less than 0.1 perc.

If you look for great sports then Grey Court is a a good choice. Teddington has also amazing sport grounds

Grey Court has just had their Ofsted outstanding rating reconfirmed following a visit in feb 2024. My DD atttended and it’s an amazing school - the ofsted outstanding report specifically says how they focus on each and every student (not just the high achieving ones). Would also echo PP’s comments that sports grounds are extensive and they run many teams - my DD represented school at football, basketball, cricket, athletics netball, tennis and rounders. Great drama and music too.

possibly worth adding my DD got 6 x grade 9s and 4 x grade 8s and a Btec distinction last summer at grey court so it certainly works well for academic children.

My daughter is at Tiffin and this is most certainly not a picture i recognise. While I would say we haven't had any particular issues that required a more interventionist approach, I'd say generally pastoral care has been excellent. Standards and expectations are extremely high but my daughter (who is probably "middling" at Tiffin as you say) doesn't feel under any pressure.

It is also categorically not true that "most girls are heavily tutored all along the school" because they got in thanks to "hothousing and extensive tutoring." My daughter had a small amount of tutoring, largely in exam technique. No one I know of has had any tutoring since they started. This might of course change towards the big exam years but absolutely is not the case from the beginning.

To the OP - yes, it is a highly competitive school to get into, but my DD absolutely loves it and is thriving. Of course it's not for everyone - what school is! - but it's a brilliant school for her (which is all any parent can ask for.) And as the exam is entirely written (no interview etc) that may help your daughter in the sense you say that she's shy in group or potentialy interview situations.

the fact that your daughter thrives there means she is resilient. You cannot assume that every child is the same.

It is also categorically not true that "most girls are heavily tutored all along the school" because they got in thanks to "hothousing and extensive tutoring."

you are joking, right? My son was tutored and there were plenty of girls in his group who had once a week tutoring + additional tutoring with a different teacher. All were trying for Tiffin Girls. Some got in, some didn't.
Even two days ago I was passing over some 11+ books for an Indian girl who has tutoring for 11+ from year 4.
Your child is a close to a genius probably that didn't need tutoring and you have no idea what kids are going through to get into Tiffin Girls. This year was way more than 2000 candidates per place.
Many kids are tutored all the time there but they simply do not boast about it.

You are misreading my post. I didn't say no one is tutored to get in, I said your statement that everyone is tutored all through the school is nonsense. I'm not sure why you think you would know that better than someone with a child actually at the school? I also didn't say my daughter wasn't tutored for the entrance exam. She was, just not - by my standards - 'heavily' (whatever that means). She had around 4 months, I think, of once a week tutoring sessions in English and Maths. She's obviously bright but absolutely not a genius. No one I know of (which as I have repeatedly said does not mean eveyrone) has had tutoring since they got in.

Of course I don't assume every child is the same, I literally say in my post that it works for HER. I am not quite sure what your agenda is here, you seem vehemently anti-Tiffin and I'm simply saying plenty of girls thrive there. Some may not, and indeed that is the case at any school and I'm merely presenting a more positive case for the OP.

(I would't have a clue about boys, as it's an entirely separate school with separate admission exam - you mention your son but obviously he would have been trying for the boys school)

said your statement that everyone is tutored all through the school is nonsense.

Of course it is and I have not written that everyone is tutored all through the school. I said " most". Perhaps the more adequate word would be "many"

why you think you would know that better than someone with a child actually at the school
I give you an example. When I was talking to the parents at our school about who is taking 11+ nobody would admit it apart from two mums. Then at our tutoring there were few! and then at the exams to local private or grammar ( my friends told me) were many many and they admitted that they kids were attending tutoring. The same with exams. All of them apparently, as they said passed stage 1 . Then at stage 2 there was hardly anybody from those who attended the stage 1. Did they pass? nope.
My Conclusion is: People do not rush to tell everything to anybody.

Also, I know very well 2 mums of Tiffin girls and boys and I spoke to many because I was buying from them the papers.
From what I am hearing. Tiffin girls is a great school. Well organised, with good teaching but there is a huge competition among very ambitious girls and many get tutoring to shine or at least have good results. Many of them got in through hothousing and it was a significant effort for them with the support of tutors. They may be not as natural as other talented kids there. And those get tutoring. I know personally 2 very well and it is pretty common there.
About self harm etc- I also heard that from mums and I even spoken with one boy from Tiffin boys about his psychosomatic issues he has since 11+.

She had around 4 months, I think, of once a week tutoring sessions in English and Maths. She's obviously bright but absolutely not a genius

My dear, you clearly have no right perspective. There are bright kids who are tutored 2 years and are not getting into Tiffin girls. Your child may be not a prodigy as you say ...but she is more than bright with magnificent attention and speed. Speed at the exam is most important. There is quite a lot to do in a short time. There are many bright kids in every school and they are not getting in. My son is very bright. At the age of 11 he reads books about philosophy and he knows programming languages. He is brilliant and a good mathematician But he is snail slow and has attention like a butterfly! Your child is way above average "bright". Tiffin girls is super superselective

I am not quite sure what your agenda is here, you seem vehemently anti-Tiffin

Not at all. I have a very good opinion about Tiffin Girls ( and not so good about Tiffin Boys for that matter). What I am saying clearly above, and please read again my post, it is for a resilient and mentally stable girls because of fierce competition. Ambitious parents push their girls to get to Tiffin and not always think if it is a right place for that specific girl who could have gained a lot of confidence in a good comprehensive or other private, whereas at Tiffin she would feel she is not as amazing as some top performers. You have no idea how much emotional disappointment it causes. I hear the stories from mums.

It’s funny how often people sound a bit like they are suffering from sour grapes when they discuss Tiffin Girls and Tiffin Boys… I’m inclined to these opinions with a pinch of salt.

There is nothing sour in my opinion about Tiffin Girls. A fantastic school but it is just not for an average child.

@YouDeserveSomeCake Well that’s not how it comes across, especially the dig at the boys school…. Also it’s not just your comments but comments in general on this forum.

I would strongly encourage to read text within the context.Here in this post OP was emphasising emotional balance of a child. Superselective school push for high results so one hardly can name them a laid back environment. But it is wonderful place for resilient emotionally super bright girls.
My son did not take exams to grammar school and we never planned it.

I strongly advise against attending Tiffin Girls School. My experience there years ago was deeply troubling, particularly regarding pastoral care.

In Year 7, I faced severe bullying from a popular girl, which quickly escalated to the entire year turning against me. This shattered my self-confidence, leading me to avoid extracurricular activities for fear of ridicule. My anxiety reached a point where I dreaded going out in public, convinced that I would be laughed at, which severely impacted my academic performance.

Despite the bullying being widely known—both by students and staff—no one intervened. In fact, one PE teacher even mocked me during class. As my mental health declined, I fell into a dark place, feeling suicidal and resorting to self-harm. Instead of receiving support, I was treated with disdain by teachers who looked down on me for my declining grades, despite the obvious circumstances of me being severely bullied by the other girls. I was made to be their amusement. There for them to tease and embarrass whenever they felt like it.

After completing my GCSEs, I transferred to a mixed private school for sixth form, and my life changed dramatically. I thrived academically, participated in extracurriculars, and even became a school prefect. The supportive environment allowed me to achieve top marks in my A-levels and gain admission to a prestigious Russell Group university. Today, I work in finance in Canary Wharf, and I attribute my success to the private school I attended. NOT Tiffin Girls School.

Ironically, some girls warned me that I wouldn't survive in any other school, especially a private one, and that I'd face even more bullying. How wrong they were.

My advice is clear: do not send your daughter to Tiffin. I've reconnected with a few former classmates who have expressed regret over what I endured, but unfortunately, it's too late for change. the damage has been done and I will forever carry a scar that has healed for sure, but will never go away.

Just to add another recent Tiffin Girls parent's experience. Mine is starting Y8.
I have been very pleasantly surprised by the school. They have really not pressured her, they are keen not to make Y7 feel like they HAVE to get top grades (for example they consulted parents on removing "mastery" category on reports because they don't want parents and girls fixating on them) and there have been so many clubs and activities my daughter has enjoyed - netball, trampolining, gymnastics and lots of other sports.

The vibe I get from them is that they care, they are inclusive and they celebrate diversity (including neurodiversity).

My dd has really gained confidence and is happy there. I was also worried about her being a little bit lacking in confidence, about hot-house type pressure and competition. All has been well though. She has grown in resilience and confidence.

None of the girls my daughter has made friends with are currently being tutored. Tutored to get in - yes, all.

The school has dealt firmly with some instances of bullying and there is a strong emphasis on pastoral support. They have a pastoral hour once a week, special assemblies have been held covering topics like appropriate Internet use/cyber bullying and any concerns I have raised were handled well and empathetically.

We're only just starting, one year under her belt so perhaps all the pressure comes as they approach GCSEs but we couldn't have wished for a better start.