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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Twickenham Secondary

105 replies

Slubulino · 27/02/2024 07:15

We are moving to Richmond in the summer. We plan to rent a property in Kew or Barnes.
my son will be year 8th is September and by the looks of it Twickenham is the secondary school most probably to have a place for him.

The academic results it looks above the average and is rated as a Good school. However being the only school not Oversubscribed and reading some old reports on the internet looks like is not a popular choice?

I am looking for some reviews or experiences you had with this school?

Another school that might have a place is Richmond Park Academy. This one looks like is below average academy.

Thank you!

OP posts:
RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 00:13

Ketzele · 27/02/2024 22:26

I have kids at Teddington (at both ends of the academic spectrum) and am happy to tell you about it. But it is a bit of a shlep from Kew or Barnes, being at the south end of the Borough. If you were to move nearer here (and it's lovely!) you would also be well placed for Tiffin, Orleans, Grey Court and Turing. I know London kids travel long distances for school, but I think it's particularly good for kids with social anxiety to have local friends.

Yes but Tiffin, Orleans, Grey Court and Turing are oversubscribed and admission point is at year 7. Unless a child resigns because of moving elsewhere.she is not going to be able to secure a place there. At Tiffin is a waiting list...

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 00:15

tennissquare · 27/02/2024 22:11

@Slubulino , why don't you consider the Swedish school in Barnes? Start him there while you navigate the London secondary school system and save on rent by living in an area that is cheaper than Barnes/Kew to pay the fees.

Exactly. That is a very good advice

lidonit · 28/02/2024 07:29

@Slubulino I'm sure you have your eyes open, but you do need to be cautious about taking "advice" from Mumsnetters. People issue it with their best of intentions, but much of it is based on opinion rather than direct experience. There have been threads on here in the past that have praised Twickenham school, which included the voices of current parents, so you may be able to find them, and if you follow the school's social media accounts it will help you get a more rounded view. But remember that the school had a long history of being in the doldrums for various reasons (there's a short history on its Wikipedia page) and so there are many people in the local community with long memories and loud voices who will talk it down. That is the school's main problem - local perception - and it can impact staff recruitment as well as student recruitment.

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 08:16

@Lidonit I'm aware of two distressing bullying incidents. In both cases, the bullies eventually left – one after months of turmoil, the other following a suspension. The only available places were at Twickenham Academy, which accepted them. This raises questions about the lingering impact of past stories- they still have validity. While there are kind local students in the school, is Twickenham Academy truly suitable for a child with social anxieties?
Are you really sure that this is the right place for a child like that?

lidonit · 28/02/2024 08:28

The term “managed out” is an oversimplification, and references to specific incidents don't give the full picture. There are a number of things going on:

If a child’s behaviour is putting them at risk of permanent exclusion then, with the consent of parents, local heads contact each other to try and arrange a “managed move”. There is a formal process with some negotiation, but all schools take an approximately equal number of managed moves. It is sometimes enough to turn a child’s behaviour around.

If a child is permanently excluded, the local authority will offer them a place in another school. Unless they are lucky with timing, this is usually in a “less popular” school because all the other schools are full. I expect this is what is being referred to in relation to TS. However, if it is a second exclusion, or if the exclusion offence was serious enough to suggest the child might put others in danger, the Head of the newly offered school can block the move and refer the child to the Fair Access process. Then a committee of local heads will collectively decide where the child should go, making sure each school takes its fair share of such cases.

All of the above is complicated by the fact that there are many children with special educational, social or health needs, who struggle in mainstream secondary schools. Schools don’t have enough funding to give them the specialist support they need, and there aren’t enough places in specialist schools or alternative provision.

Having said all that, TS has very many children from its local community who are happy there and thrive. If you look in the right place, you may find their parents online. Or you may just need to visit the school to make your own judgement.

If you do find lots of recent threads on Mumsnet which criticise TS, look closely, as it is often the same people posting on multiple thread. Some people have louder voices than others, but that doesn't mean other opinions aren't out there.

useitorlose · 28/02/2024 08:35

Would you consider north of the river? There are some great options in Ealing and Hounslow.

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 09:30

all schools take an approximately equal number of managed moves.

Not in Borough of Richmond where most of the schools are oversubscribed and simply they don't have a place. Whereas Twickenham school always has a place because it is a very large school and not oversubscribed.

Some people have louder voices than others
Like your voice is quieter ...

3WildOnes · 28/02/2024 09:39

As you are renting then I would rent a property within a 100m of one of the top performing comprehensives in the Borough. So Orleans, Turing house or Grey Court. Whilst they are oversubscribed places do come up and you would be at the top of the list if you are the closest.

lidonit · 28/02/2024 10:37

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 09:30

all schools take an approximately equal number of managed moves.

Not in Borough of Richmond where most of the schools are oversubscribed and simply they don't have a place. Whereas Twickenham school always has a place because it is a very large school and not oversubscribed.

Some people have louder voices than others
Like your voice is quieter ...

There doesn't need to be "a place". Fully subscribed schools go over PAN for managed moves and fair access placings. And managed moves are sometimes negotiated as "swaps".

I know how it works because I work in a school (in the borough of Richmond) and have visibility of the process.

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 10:57

Never heard that a behaving pupil was swapped for a pupil that was managed out. I cannot imagine a swap with Tiffin or Orlean Park. There are parents who after National Offer Day wish to remain on waiting list even for years in case somebody moved out...

In the two instances I know, one was placed in Twickenham right away simply because there were places.
In the second case there was a place in Teddington school but as the pupil continued misbehaviour also there and he was moved relatively quickly to Twickenham. These are very recent cases

lidonit · 28/02/2024 11:42

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 10:57

Never heard that a behaving pupil was swapped for a pupil that was managed out. I cannot imagine a swap with Tiffin or Orlean Park. There are parents who after National Offer Day wish to remain on waiting list even for years in case somebody moved out...

In the two instances I know, one was placed in Twickenham right away simply because there were places.
In the second case there was a place in Teddington school but as the pupil continued misbehaviour also there and he was moved relatively quickly to Twickenham. These are very recent cases

Well you've heard about it now. I'm sure there's a lot you don't know about schools.

Tiffin isn't in Richmond upon Thames. Orleans Park is, and certainly does participate in the local processes.

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 12:40

The second document doesn't say anywhere about swaps with other school neither about any process of deciding which should such child would be managed out to.

The first document is regarding unplaced and vulnerable children, and those who are having difficulty in securing a school place in-year, are allocated. It refers to the fair access to education by any child in particular vunerable kids. It is not referring to any rules of moving managed out kids to other schools.
I am sorry but I must admit I am very surprised you link these irrelevant to this topic documents that are proving nothing in our discussion.
I do not deny that there might be some school arrangements as you describe and your experience may be valid. But these documents are not an evidence and are not related to the actual school allocation process for managed kids.
As I said, I know of two examples. The allocation was simply based on availability of place. The second example makes me think that Twickenham is better prepared and more experienced with embracing such cases than other schools. That pupil stayed in Twickenham.

lidonit · 28/02/2024 13:06

"The second document doesn't say anywhere about swaps with other school"

Of course it doesn't. I mentioned swaps because they are sometimes used when Heads are negotiating managed moves, not a formality - "yes I'll take child X, but please can I also talk to you about taking child Y".

"neither about any process of deciding which should such child would be managed out to"

Managed moves are used to avoid permanent exclusion, usually when all other measures are exhausted. If the managed move fails, and the negative behaviour continues, expulsion is often the next step.

"The first document is regarding unplaced and vulnerable children, and those who are having difficulty in securing a school place in-year, are allocated."

You obviously didn't get past paragraph 1.1. 🙄
Try reading the rest of it, e.g. 1.2, 3.3j, and section 4.

lidonit · 28/02/2024 13:15

"neither about any process of deciding which [school] such [a] child would be managed out to"

I realised you made a typo. Again, this is down to informal negotiation - the Heads all know each other and meet regularly.

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 14:37

Try reading the rest of it, e.g. 1.2, 3.3j, and section 4.

To be fair I didn't go into depth. Yes, I see that now it mentions the children with behavioral issues.
However, it doesn't describe any rules on school allocation for these kids. Therefore, both documents are not relevant to the conversation. You mentioned yourself it is an informal process. Therefore no point to quote them.

I believe in your experience. But also I believe mums telling me the stories where they moved "that naughty kid now." Twickenham still pops up as an answer very often. And it is not because the school has bad results or is badly managed. I think it is because for some unexplained reason it is not oversubscribed and also because they actually know how to correct behaviour.

Slubulino · 28/02/2024 21:00

lidonit · 28/02/2024 10:37

There doesn't need to be "a place". Fully subscribed schools go over PAN for managed moves and fair access placings. And managed moves are sometimes negotiated as "swaps".

I know how it works because I work in a school (in the borough of Richmond) and have visibility of the process.

Edited

Thank you! Is the data of transfers and swaps public?

OP posts:
Slubulino · 28/02/2024 21:06

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate taking your time to write about your experiences. Honestly I am super confused now 😅.

OP posts:
lidonit · 28/02/2024 21:11

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 14:37

Try reading the rest of it, e.g. 1.2, 3.3j, and section 4.

To be fair I didn't go into depth. Yes, I see that now it mentions the children with behavioral issues.
However, it doesn't describe any rules on school allocation for these kids. Therefore, both documents are not relevant to the conversation. You mentioned yourself it is an informal process. Therefore no point to quote them.

I believe in your experience. But also I believe mums telling me the stories where they moved "that naughty kid now." Twickenham still pops up as an answer very often. And it is not because the school has bad results or is badly managed. I think it is because for some unexplained reason it is not oversubscribed and also because they actually know how to correct behaviour.

Managed Moves are informal. The Fair Access Protocol is formal.

The documents are relevant to the conversation, but if you don't have an eye for detail, you may not understand them.

"I think it is because for some unexplained reason it is not oversubscribed"

This made me laugh. The "explanation" is that people like you keep slagging the school off based on hearsay and gossip. There are also many people who have bad memories of the school when it was genuinely not good, and they slag it off online too. Reputation is a precious commodity for schools. I realise you may not want to send your own children there, but why are you so invested in making sure that others don't either? It seems to me that you have an extraordinary lack of compassion and empathy for the many people who have been working so hard, over many years, to turn the school's reputation around.

lidonit · 28/02/2024 21:13

Slubulino · 28/02/2024 21:00

Thank you! Is the data of transfers and swaps public?

Edited

No it isn't. And the only way you could "game" it would be to encourage your child to behave so badly that they met the threshold for expulsion. 🙂

MarchingFrogs · 28/02/2024 22:33

Slubulino · 27/02/2024 11:45

I understand! But that I see as a strong point if the kids find what they need there. My son is a gifted kid that will require a bit is support in the social environment. Do you know if they have support for gifted kids?

Also Richmond Park Academy seems closer to where we want to move. But not sure how to interpret the academic results. They are below the average.

I have zero personal knowledge of the schools mentioned (a friend's DC were at Teddington, but the youngest is 24 now and no doubt the school has changed a bit since then), but you can look at how a cohort did at the end of KS4 according to prior attainment, e.g.for Richmond Park Academy

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136208/richmond-park-academy/secondary/results-by-pupil-characteristics?accordionstate=0|1

Results by pupil characteristics - Richmond Park Academy - Compare school and college performance data in England - GOV.UK

You can find schools and colleges in your area. You can also view exam and test results, financial details and Ofsted reports.

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136208/richmond-park-academy/secondary/results-by-pupil-characteristics?accordionstate=0%7C1

RedFluffyPanda · 28/02/2024 22:41

lidonit · 28/02/2024 21:11

Managed Moves are informal. The Fair Access Protocol is formal.

The documents are relevant to the conversation, but if you don't have an eye for detail, you may not understand them.

"I think it is because for some unexplained reason it is not oversubscribed"

This made me laugh. The "explanation" is that people like you keep slagging the school off based on hearsay and gossip. There are also many people who have bad memories of the school when it was genuinely not good, and they slag it off online too. Reputation is a precious commodity for schools. I realise you may not want to send your own children there, but why are you so invested in making sure that others don't either? It seems to me that you have an extraordinary lack of compassion and empathy for the many people who have been working so hard, over many years, to turn the school's reputation around.

Edited

You are providing me with irrelevant links. Then you are contradicting yourself by saying that the swaps and process is informal. What was the point of irrelevant links? Completely illogical

The "explanation" is that people like you keep slagging the school off based on hearsay and gossip.

wow. wow. I have an amazing power. You made me laugh. Goodbye

Slubulino · 29/02/2024 08:15

MarchingFrogs · 28/02/2024 22:33

I have zero personal knowledge of the schools mentioned (a friend's DC were at Teddington, but the youngest is 24 now and no doubt the school has changed a bit since then), but you can look at how a cohort did at the end of KS4 according to prior attainment, e.g.for Richmond Park Academy

https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136208/richmond-park-academy/secondary/results-by-pupil-characteristics?accordionstate=0|1

Thank you! The results are low compared to the schools in the area :/.

OP posts:
lidonit · 29/02/2024 12:53

Slubulino · 29/02/2024 08:15

Thank you! The results are low compared to the schools in the area :/.

That's partly because of the inwards drift of new students, as discussed above. If a new student joins a school in Year 10 or Year 11, the school won't have much time to make a positive impact on their results. Schools that are full and have a stable cohort from year 7-11 have a better opportunity to show what they can do with their teaching.

Somewhere online I think I've seen figures on cohort stability ... possibly in the school census data.

SometimesIchangemyname · 02/03/2024 09:04

Hi OP. All three of mine went to Twickenham School. Has been 5 years since the last one left but I occasionally see posts and like to step in and comment.

The school was good for my three. They got great results. There’s no 6th form so you do have to consider where they would go after GCSEs. (Waldegrave and Orleans Park for mine).

Yes there are lairy kids there. The school gets the kids kicked out by other schools as it has places. Also the new immigrant kids who arrive at random times and need a space somewhere (and generally do very well).

I would say all of mine were on the sensitive and highly academic side and they found their people. They made wonderful friends and had some amazing teachers. They were all happy there. Never any bullying.

On the downside there can be a bit of poverty of aspiration. Many are from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. The music and drama quality was poor compared to neighbouring schools. Sport was good.

My children gained resilience and understanding alongside their excellent GCSEs. I am happy they went there.
That said. I would be looking at the Swedish school. Have always heard great things.

Hope you are happy in Richmond. It’s a lovely place to live.