Woodhouse College, North London

[pinkduckquack]

Hi there. My DS is currently in Year 10 - he's at currently at a selective indie. He's pretty academic (early GCSE predictions 8s and 9s) and happy where he is, but considering a change of scene for sixth form for various reasons. DAO and Latymer are options we're exploring - though the journey time to both puts him off a bit.

Have heard great things about about Woodhouse and it's apparently in the top five sixth form colleges in the whole of the UK?! Some earlier threads on here seemed a bit 'meh' though and wondering if anyone has recent experience? Thank you x

It's really really good. Not much else to say. Much more diverse than places like Camden girls etc that also attract the high performers. It's essentially college but full of very determined smart kids and some love it others hate it. Depends on your personality I presume. It's difficult to get a space, lots of kids don't. I suggest visiting the open evening.

@Foxesandsquirrels - thank you. That's great to hear.

Just curious - why do you think some kids would 'hate it' - is it because pupils tend to be very driven and a bit competitive? If so my DS is currently at a school which is deemed to academically 'pushy', and he's more than fine with that. How's the teaching?

Camden girls and APS sixth form are also options we'll explore - but the results don't seem quite as good as at Woodhouse's...

@pinkduckquack I don't have any very current info if I'm honest, my experience of it is pre pandemic but if your child is doing well at an academic indie than they should be fine, although it depends how much they are spoon fed to be honest. Woodhouse will require lots of self motivation and organisation but tbh the best thing you can do is just go to the open day.
APS offers vocational qualifications too and they have lower accepted grades for A Levels, plus they expect them to take 5 and carry on with 4 as far as I know. It's a huge sixth form.
Camden would probably be the most 'similar' to an indie in terms of types of kids that go. Depends on the social scene your child wants really.

It is a large size sixth form college, a good mix of north london comp schools, grammar kids (Latymer/HBS/QE) and some from independent schools. Many more social life opportunities compared to the grammars schools but maybe too much for some. Requires a lot of good self displines and hard work for high aspiration children, esp for those from hot house secondary environments.

It's evidently brilliant in many ways. I know lots of children there. Quite a mixed picture in terms of happiness, but they all say the teaching is great.

Depending on the type of school you come from it can be a big bump tho - friend's son went there from indie school and did appallingly for ages (didn't seem to realise that he needed to work if there wasn't someone making him). Loved it and did well by the end tho.

Some find it a party school and love that. Others regret that there isn't more social life. It's so huge that I think people have enormously divergent experiences.

My niece had a great time there and got fantastic A levels. It's pretty much a default 6th form for my oldest's school but they have decided not to put it as first choice as they want to do music and have heard other 6th forms have better music departments, so is prioritising those, but we're all OK if they end up at Woodhouse.

Thank you - this is all so interesting and food for thought. DS is driven but organisation isn’t his strong point - I wonder how tough he would find that?

If anyone here has views on APS I’d also love to hear them. I feel a bit suspicious of the ‘5 A-levels’ thing - why do this? At my eldest daughter’s school they all start with 4 because the logic is that it’s too early to specialise and if one subject becomes too challenging you can drop one and be fine. Less than half the year qualify with four usually. This all makes sense - but five just seems a bit excessive?!

I’ve just taken a look at APS sixth form brochure. They start with four subjects in year 12 and must take at least three in year 13. Doing four A levels for a year seems mad enough to me but I can’t see anything about taking five.

My DS1 applied to 5 places to do the same combination of A levels (after GCSEs at an 11-16 comprehensive) and narrowed it down to APS versus Woodhouse. In the end DS1 settled on APS but he dithered right up into the first week of term

They mostly don't do 5 A levels, they do 4 and drop to 3 at APS, unless they are doing Further Maths, when they are expected to be aiming to stick with it - but both APS and Woodhouse study the Maths A level content in Y12 and FM in Y13.

DS1 said one of his friends' older sisters wasn't happy about having sufficient levels of support at Woodhouse - I'm not sure when this was and how different schools coped with COVID/lockdown though. Quite a few of DS1's friends are also now at APS - they're travelling over from Tottenham and it's a 2 bus journey but APS is 15 minutes nearer to us. Some of DS1's friends got in to APS with good grades for their chosen subjects but not so great for others. One of his friends got in to do Music Tech via a waiting list - not an A level course but equivalent to 1.5 A levels and it sounds like a good option for those who

Woodhouse and APS have quite similar entry requirements for DS1's course combination (7s for the subjects studied or a similar one, 8 for FM), but I think APS takes more students with a more mixed grade profile. Woodhouse asks for an average of 7.5 in 8 best GCSEs for 4 subjects, but average 6 for 3, and I think it's mostly Further Maths students who do 4. Woodhouse seems keener on the EPQ (project) - I think that could be useful for students wanting to continue subjects with a lot of reading/writing college/university - I would have loved the chance to do an EPQ which I don't think was a thing in my day.

@elkiedee - thanks so much. How is your DS finding it? I know one family who love APS but another who struggles with it - their kids are pre-sixth form though.

@Foxesandsquirrels - meant to ask, was curious about your point that Camden Girls feels ‘most like an indie’? Anyone with a DS there? I know someone with a boy there - who is enjoying being a boy among so many girls a little too much 😉😂

We will go to open days and get a feel but it’s a tough call. Because DS is pretty academic, I think the teaching/results is the key factor rather than the social side - but it’s so hard to judge when they are all different sizes and have different selection criteria.

My kids both went there (last one left this summer) and I think it's brilliant. An bright and motivated child will do well academically in any environment, but Woodhouse gives them so much more than a familiar school 6th form in terms of personal growth - it's like a halfway house between school and university and definitely prepares them well for life after school in that respect, independent learning, organisation etc.

My older one had a more patchy experience (in the depths of Covid) but aside from the difficulties of studying in a new place during repeated lockdowns, it was very well managed by the college (as good as it could be). That's Woodhouse all over; it's run as a very tight ship.

@ChristieEve - thanks so much. Very good to hear your kids had a good experience, particularly your younger one. How did you find the level of support in terms of university applications?

My elder daughter is at the same school at DS and doing her A-levels next summer. She is super organised and driven - just applied to Oxford. It's difficult to judge how much of this is just 'her' and how much support the school has given her. DS isn't quite as organised and self-motivated and I do worry a little about the 'independent learning' aspect of Woodhouse - although the teaching must be excellent if it achieves the results it does? x

@pinkduckquack
DS1 generally says he's finding it ok at APS but in his first week he had a bit of a panic that he should have chosen Woodhouse, whose induction day was on Friday 1/9 so he attended that as well. He actually asked if he could switch to Woodhouse but there were no places to do Further Maths. DS1 kept asking me what I thought and I said to him that while I'd thought Woodhouse might be a good place to go, not being able to do the FM course there was, for him, a deal breaker, and that he shouldn't panic about APS being the wrong place for sixth form, that he should give it time. The sixth form seems to be very different from years 7-11.

I do worry a bit about him as 21st century 6th form years seem a lot more challenging in some ways than my own experience. But he did ask for help when he had to finally decide between APS and Woodhouse.

Before year 11 and having to think about what next, I worried about DS1 getting down to preparing for exams and was quite surprised but very impressed by how he got down to revision/practise papers/seeking advice on exam technique and sixth form and made all his applications/went to interviews independently.

It's quite a rush to decide definitely between results day and terms starting, but there's nothing to stop your son applying to Woodhouse, APS and any other options which appeal, and taking up chances to visit and find out more, seeing if he can tap into local grapevines for more experiences and information relevant to his subject choices and (if he knows what he'd like to do after A levels) future hopes.

They both seem to offer various programmes and support for university applications including special stuff for Oxbridge and medical school hopefuls, and various other opportunities.

@pinkduckquack To put it bluntly, CSG sixth form is full of posh kids that could easily afford private. Their lifestyle and home life will be very very similar to what your child is currently exposed to. They're lovely kids and hardworking, just socio-economic diversity isn't there as much as it is at APS or Woodhouse. I'm not saying every child at CSG is posh, but it is the majority rather than minority. I'll probably get flamed for this by some CSG parent on here, but in my experience that's the case.
For all of these, the open evenings book out super super quickly so check when they're released and book quickly to avoid disappointment.

@elkiedee - thanks so much for the reply. It's great to hear your son is doing so well at APS. You say it's different to the younger years - are you talking about the quite tough discipline? One family I know with kids there find it too strict - though another family I know love it and I can't imagine it could be much stricter than the local indies in all honesty.

@Foxesandsquirrels - interesting! That fits with my experience - a few of dd's friends left to go to CSG for sixth form. They are all girls though and I wonder how it is for boys?

As we seem to have a lot of local experience and knowledge on this thread - any opinions on DAO or Latymer for sixth form? Both are amazing schools I know, but quite arduous to get to from Crouch End every day....

@pinkduckquack

Yes, mainly talking about discipline - sixth form are able to wear their own clothes including hoodies, sportswear, trainers etc. DS1 has struggled with timekeeping as he's gone from 5 minutes walk to a 2 bus journey - and we were getting regular messages on lateness then!, and he did get put on report for a week for that, but he's normally setting out earlier now and I think it's given him a rather needed push. I think sixth form has a balance which suits him and his age/stage of education, that transition between GCSE years and university, well.

I agree about trying to get to open evenings but if your son and you can't make it to one for any reason (I think some clashed with DS1's school parents evenings which are more important in year 11 in terms of finding out eg where a kid isn't doing themselves justice in assessments/mocks while there's time to make up gaps), there's nothing to stop him making an initial application before any deadline (my memory is that one had an early deadline - might have been APS - and the others were mostly in January). You then get a chance to visit, find out more, ask questions etc, and time to fully explore options.

Gosh, I'm surprised to hear people referring to Woodhouse as 'diverse'. I went to the open day last year and it was the whitest place I've been in in a long time. Given where it's situated, I was very surprised not to see any south Asian families. There may be some in the school, but the open day was very, very white and middle class (including us).

I would say Woodhouse has similar profile to the demographic profile of Barnet and its neighbour councils. It proportionally represent the diverse of North London. Its a sixth form college with a lot of social (party) activities that probably put off some demographics who might has its own heavy concentration on the north london single sex Grammar and indies.

Watching this with interest. We're a bit off making decisions for sixth form but Woodhouse sounds great. I think it's a tricky journey from us (Walthamstow) but at least a couple of kids seem to go each year.

My DD1 is at Latymer @pinkduckquack and at the moment is quite keen on staying for 6th form. I think the only reason she would leave would be to study something they don't offer, possibly drama. The 6th form are still quite part of the school, taking part in school plays, and often helping run them, and heads of house are in the 6th form. It seems like a nice atmosphere - they wear casual clothes rather than the "business" wear of Mossborne and the like. I'd say it's definitely worth a look. I think there's a bus from Crouch End? DD1's besties live in Muswell Hill and plenty seem to come from that area.

The other ones I hear lots about are LEA Tottenham & Stratford. Not sure if they're on your radar?

My DD was at Woodhouse College almost 10 years ago. It was excellent then and very diverse. I remember going to the open day and being really impressed by the numbers of students who were there to show us round and were so enthusiastic about their college. There were lots of enrichment activities, extra support regularly available for students who needed a bit of help, a great library, teaching staff who were genuinely interested in the students.
I know there is a new HT now, so I may be a bit out of date, but we had a really positive experience.

DS1 looked at/applied to London Academy of Excellence Tottenham and got an offer, but he wasn't really that impressed. They boast asking for high entry requirements - but ask for higher GCSE grades than APS as general entry requirements/across the board but their results have been lower. (DS1 actually had quite similar conditional offers from all 5 places, but that was because he was applying to study 4 A levels including Further Maths, so higher than most entry requirements). Their focus is very much on top grades and high status universities although they have actually started to boast re degree level apprenticeships too.

In their first year they claimed only 1% of school leavers in Tottenham had gone to top universities. Now, if this was only counting those who'd left Tottenham schools, they would have mostly been year 11! if they counted school leavers from year 13 who lived in Tottenham, as plenty go to Hornsey Girls or Greig, travel out of borough from year 7, and at 16, go across to APS, Woodhouse, sixth forms in Camden, Islington. So either way it's a misleading claim. And they also have a thing about business suits and proper shoes.....

APS and Woodhouse offer a bigger range of subjects - this might be partly size related, but LAET doesn't offer Sociology and the Philosophy course offered is different - he preferred the APS options. In some subjects it's definitely worth comparing the course/board being offered as there are some significant variations.

That's interesting @elkiedee . Barely any schools in Walthamstow go over 16 either.

I had heard anecdotally of quite a few waiting list offers being given by LAE this year as they had offered too highly to fill their places.

@Stokey That doesn't surprise me. While it would be nice to have more post 16 options close to home here, and I know DS1's Triple Science teacher spoke highly of it, but his form tutor, made quite a sceptical comment. A teacher friend's DD was choosing between LAET and Woodhouse, and she settled on Woodhouse, to her mum's relief - she thought it would really be more her DD's style, their results are good and her DD wanted to do Sociology A level which isn't offered at LAET, though it is at most of the universities they aspire to send students to.

As a generalisation, high achieving South Asian families tend to prefer single sex education (if it's an option) and their children often will have been at QEBoys and HB since Year 7. They are not particularly attracted to the liberal ethos of Woodhouse.

That said, there definitely are many South Asian children there; it's just not a dominant group. Woodhouse may be whiter, but it was still much more diverse than my DC's previous school - in so far as it was not dominated by two or three particular groups. I think it's a great mix.