Schools where kids with adhd have good outcomes

[Stuckrecord]

Can anyone fill me in on what a school with good support for kids with adhd looks like? I don’t know whether my expectations are unrealistic but our school has - overstretched senco you can never get hold of, teachers that seem to think adhd can be cured by detentions and little understanding of the condition, seemingly no connection being made between their sen and academic potential (my kid called stupid by a member of slt the other day) and no intervention unless you practically go in there and tell them what to do yourself.

Surely there must be some schools out there getting it right? If your kid has good support and is doing well academically, what sort of things are they doing so I know what “good” should look like please?

I think it takes parents a while to come to terms that medication is the right course of action. If someone had helped me by explaining how it could help at school I maybe would have looked into starting sooner. If we went down the cahms route we would still be waiting for a diagnosis.

Luckily our DD decided immediately to give it a go. I was unsure but could see she was falling behind & teachers would assume just lazy / not bright. She's the exact opposite. Her outcomes have turned massively

It's hard to get medication though! At least it is round here. We've just seen an NHS paediatrician after a year's wait (that's 2.5 years on from private diagnosis). We now have to do a parenting course and some other stuff. He said he couldn't prescribe now because her distraction scores from school aren't high enough. Which is because her needs are met there... the primary to secondary transition is what's worrying us.

Medication (at least methylphenidate, the one the NHS commonly prescribes) commonly has side effects and when you have a DC who already struggles with sleeping, eating and anxiety, that's a concern.

That's with my mum hat on.

As a teacher, I'd say the Head makes a huge difference and the character of schools can certainly change over time. Trust your gut on that one.

@Phineyj that's insane.
We had to go private for diagnosis to avoid a 2-3 year wait for CAMHS. We paid for initial drugs for 3 months but then GP just took it over once prescription stable. We are now just on a monthly repeat prescription.

@Phineyj there's very useful threads on those concerns on here & how to manage it. DD is on slow release ones so has to eat lots when wears off and calorie load when we can etc ADHD kids also do just sleep less.

Yes the side effects have been a concern to us too, it’s not a straightforward decision and takes some real soul searching about whether you are doing the right thing.

Are schools (comps) just allowed to be unwelcoming to sen children though? The head has said some worryingly ignorant things to me directly and indirectly I’ve also heard some troubling remarks made about send support. I feel like no one is holding them to account on this and because their gcse results are good, no one cares about the kids that aren’t getting the support they need.

Hi OP, as you are discovering, there is a big old gap between what the law says and good practice recommends and what schools can get away with.

Local authorities lose 90% of SEN tribunals. Think about that. 90% of cases where the local authorities have unlawfully denied EHCP.

Then imagine what a school can get away with.

In my experience most teachers do want to do the right thing but they are constrained.

Re medication - I saw the book The Parents' Guide to ADHD Medicines recommended on here (Prof Peter Hill). It's fab!

@Stuckrecord some Trusts & schools are increasingly marketing themselves as highly academic & all about GCSEs with very strict discipline. So they send the message out about what they want...
we risked side effects as I couldn't watch her fail at school.
The school system is so underfunded that it's being forced like that I think. No money for extra TAs etc

We had a change of head between our older son and DD. It can make a huge difference. Had we sent DD to her final school at 11 she may have been happier. One size doesn't not fit all but as parents we do our best. Education is the hardest decision we make. We also perhaps follow the crowd? ND children need more support throughout their life. Our DD has had reasonable adjustments made at her university. I do honestly think you need to call this head out. I wish I had been more arsey. Often SEN is not diagnosed until puberty and then it is such a shock.
I remember a terse conversation with my daughters new head where she said 'no one wants me'. He swiftly replied he did, she needed to prove she wanted to be there. He had excellent insight into disenfranchised children.
Look for that in any leader.

That is a shocking stat.

To me it seems like a no brainer, good sen support means better outcomes for all involved - teachers, sen kids, parents and other kids in the class.

Maybe all heads should be required to spend a year in a senco role as part of their path to becoming a head. Just a thought. The whole system needs a fundamental rethink it is all so depressing how badly managed it is.

I’ll look the book up, thanks.

Another vote for the book. I have it.
And look up advice on here too.

I think there is a lot of undiagnosed SEN though.

I can see why schools don't want to look under the rug, so to speak.

Because then the whole curriculum would need redoing to be genuinely inclusive.

Schools would need to shrink. Having too many DC squished into creaking old buildings is definitely worsening the situation.

Michael Gove has a lot to answer for on the curriculum 😡.

Are schools (comps) just allowed to be unwelcoming to sen children though? The head has said some worryingly ignorant things to me directly and indirectly I’ve also heard some troubling remarks made about send support. I feel like no one is holding them to account on this and because their gcse results are good, no one cares about the kids that aren’t getting the support they need.

They're not allowed BUT really the system is set up in such a way that schools that welcome a lot of SEN kids get punished- funding for schools is really low, it's hard to afford and recruit support staff (even if the child doesn't need a TA in class, a TA is often needed to manage "time out" etc). Often kids with ADHD don't manage well in large classes (32+) but this is the reality in most secondary schools.

In terms of grades, they often underperform (which is a vicious cycle with the lack of support) and so impact schools on headline figures and progress 8.

So some schools do pressure students with SEN, and ADHD particularly in order to leave. It's very much not allowed but very hard to prove.

In terms of things that may help which any reasonable school should allow:

-Some kind of small/non distracting fidget toy in class.

-During long tasks they should allow rest breaks.

-During more formal assessments, ask for rest breaks and a prompt. These are allowed access arrangements at GCSE and A-level and can be really useful for students with ADHD- a rest break would normally be up to 10 minutes an hour, I think, but more may be appropriate at KS3. The time of the break gets added on at the end of the assessment. This might help him show what he knows during assessment better?

-Possibly a time out card. Time out cards are difficult for lots of reasons, and you need to be sure he would use it as intended and go to the agreed place and not just use it to avoid tasks he doesn't like BUT it can be really useful for students to take themselves off for 5 or 10 minutes when it's getting too much and avoid them stacking up sanctions. Sometimes just the movement etc can help.

-Sometimes there is some success with moving the student to a class where the rest of the class is calm and focused BUT a) he has to want and agree to the class move, and b) he may be academically at the bottom of the class, which isn't great for all children c) it may be a bigger class, which may not work for him. But I have seen this work really well for some children.

I will say that I think the way secondary school is set up now just isn't the right thing for a lot of children with ADHD, and I'm also not sure the assessment model of long final exams suits them (generalisation, sorry!). I teach a student in Y13 who's doing an extended BTEC diploma who has (medicated) ADHD, and although meeting a deadline can be a challenge, they are on track to get DDD which you wouldn't predict from their GCSE results. They've also got uni offers they are really happy with- so that's hopefully a bit of a positive story for the future!

They can certainly be very clear in all their marketing, what type of student will fit their ethos ... that's what a certain trust near us does.

This is all really helpful thank you. Our school ethos talks about inclusivity and caring for the individual which is almost laughable given our experience :(

School ethoses all say that sort of thing, unfortunately.

BTW I do think what the member of SLT said to your child is unacceptable, and I would complain about that, and I VERY rarely urge parents to complain!

My child got a diagnosis at about the same age, but they were already in a private school because of being v able but chaotic and we know they'd just be left in the middle of things, doing tolerably, by a state school.

We have: extra time, laptops in lessons and exams, and a session with learning support weekly to help with revision (coming up to GCSEs). All this with medication, which is genuinely a lifesaver.

But don't rule out private - go and talk to them and explain the situation, some schools are more understanding than others, and if you can explain the potential may listen.

It's early days at DD 's school (y7) but the support we've had so far is: zoom calls with senco and head of year to explain issues in detail, allowed sketch book, doodle pad and reading books out in class, invitation to games club to help make friends, no fuss about leaving early for weekly CAMHS appointment, direct dialogue between school and CAMHS by email, help tracking down lost equipment. Plus generally inclusive things like an open access library and art room at breaks, before and after school, flexible hair and uniform rules. There has been the odd issue with individual teachers but I feel like the overall approach feels supportive so I can put those into context.

The problem with people saying don't rule out private is that I have two DC.
I don't have a spare £30k a year to send them private. I'm sure they'd thrive. I'm sure they'd love the extra sports. But I can't afford it

We paid out about £1500 to get diagnosis & initial meds. I know families crying out for help on long CAMHS wait lists who have no chance of affording £1500

We don't have a formal diagnosis yet but have had initial assessments and interim report with CAMHS within a few months and are now doing weekly therapy for anxiety. Just being in the system has helped unlock things at school

The recent focus on Ofsted has highlighted again, that what matters is the data and the capacity to show how that is being used. Aside from safeguarding, of course, which is priority.

The trouble with that is that the school is expected to show consistent upward trajectory in the progress of the students and in the results. This isn’t always possible for some young people, but Ofsted doesn’t recognise that everyone is an individual, starting and finishing at different points.

It might be that the SENCo is pressured by SLT or that SLT, being results driven, don’t understand. A school that is nurturing to ND students would be the ideal, but that’s not what schools are judged on. I had parents wanting to send their children to the school where I was a SENCo, but too often, that’s not what the powers that be want to be known for.

I was proud of the successes we had, but many of them wouldn’t count as successes in purely data driven terms.

I think ofsted needs complete reform. Part of having a ND child I think is coming to terms with the fact that “normal” measures of success are not your measure of success. At one point success for me was my kid staying in school and not being kicked out! Now success for me is about him being happy and succeeding in his own way in a nurturing environment.

but too often, that’s not what the powers that be want to be known for.
i think this is the issue at our school (and probably many) and it’s so wrong.