School uniform in sixth form

[theae]

Just beginning to think about possible sixth form options (that is A Level: do they still call it sixth form?) for dear daughter (1st year GCSE). Exploring with her what she is likely to want and it seems that a major factor is freedom of clothing.

At her current school (independent day school) they have to continue wearing the same uniform but with a different tie in the sixth form and this shocked me. Surely the beauty of the sixth form is some more freedom?

I attended similar school in another part of the country 20+ years ago and we had a dress code of essntially smart skirts and blouses for girls, any colour suits and ties for boys - not much different from a school uniform granted but still we were given some freedom.

Is it now more normal for schools to insist on uniform in the sixth form?

My children both went to single sex grammar schools. My son had basically full school uniform (suit, tie) though suit could be grey/dark blue/black. Daughter had no uniform and pretty much anything goes. On balance I prefer the latter, though it does cause some extra stress too.

I think the worst is "business dress". What on earth is that supposed to be? What a pain! And particularly crazy when University doesn't ask for anything like that.

[quote Placido]@JennyDune do you really only judge a school on those limited criteria?[/quote]
I would disagree that what i said was a limited criteria. Imo, its the main purpose of school.

Other stuff, like life skills, DIY, cooking, social skills, behaviour need to be taught and reinforced at home

@Cattitudes

I meant generally. Obviously there will be some individuals who are the exception/s.

DS wears a suit/ tie or smart trousers/ waistcoat/ tie. The girls are meant to wear business dress but it seems much more loosely defined. It fits in with the whole school focus on uniform and presentation.

[quote JennyDune]@Cattitudes

I meant generally. Obviously there will be some individuals who are the exception/s.[/quote]
I meant schools not individuals around here it is very much as Finknottlesnewt describes. It is the 'up and coming' schools who have the strictest dress codes, so your prejudice against certain schools would definitely be misplaced.

@521Jeanie

Most round here specify formal business attire (suits) or office wear (ie smartish casual, not denim or sportswear.). DD travelled some distance to a more liberal college, where as a PP said, they emphasised turning up on time and doing the work over the students' appearance. I was fully supportive of this. I felt she needed to grow as a person and find out who she was rather than be squashed down.

Completely agree. How much more sensible is your opinion of what should be happening in a school than what @JennyDune believes in. I have seen so many people arrive at University ill prepared having come from stifled institutions that prioritise results over mental health and exploration.

My children's state school has uniform in 6th form but it's different to the rest of the school. It's the only school in our area with a uniform. All the rest have a "business dress" dress code. I prefer the uniform. It's smart and straightforward, relatively inexpensive and not open to interpretation. Virtually everyone I know who has children at other local schools have had to spend quite a lot on 6th form clothes as their children's normal clothes don't meet the dress code, and quite a few have have outfits rejected by the schools as being unsuitable. At least with uniform you know where you stand, and you don't need as much either as nobody is worrying about being seen in the same outfit twice in a week.
I think business dress is the worst of both worlds. It's still clothes teenagers don't really want to wear but it costs more than uniform and takes more effort. Either have a uniform or let them wear what they actually want!

*JennyDune(
Tbh, imo, the better the school, the more strict the dress code

We do have a weird attachment to uniform in this country. Most others get by just fine and produce well educated young people without prescribing the minutiae of their clothing.

Fwiw for many years I taught in a top independent school which had no uniform or dress code in the sixth form, and the results and behaviour were/are outstanding. There are far better things to occupy your time with sixth formers than the colour of their jumpers.

We've not had school 6th forms for years here unless you're paying for private education or going out of area to grammar. Those places have uniform but the colleges don't. The only dress code is suitable for the subject and not offensive.

Dd1 wore whatever she wanted bar a few rules on decency eg no crop tops and skirts/shorts not too short (state). Dd2 wore uniform (private)

Tbh, imo, the better the school, the more strict the dress code

This is so not true. There is no link between achievement and uniform. In fact badly performing schools often overly focus on uniform.

I left teaching last year, but spent 25 years teaching in one of the country’s top state schools.

Uniform in KS3 and 4. No limit on hairstyles/makeup
KS5 could wear anything as long as not revealing it offensive.

Frequently beat both the local private schools in A level results.

I think the worst option is business/office wear. Forcing teenagers and parents to buy suits or things that the modern office worker hasn’t worn in decades is ridiculous. Stick to school uniform or own clothes.

In my area colleges have no dress code but school sixth forms are business dress.

@godawful

A lot of good school sixth forms now require a proper grown-up suit or equivalent. It was a pain to find one that fit a small 16 year old along with the shirt/shoes etc (you feel like you have mastered secondary school uniform sizes then you have to start again at year 12). But it is better really - smart work wear is often easier to wash and quicker to dry than heavy sweatshirts and jeans etc, another 2 year reprieve from some of the cool girl/boy pressure, no thinking about what to wear in the morning 5 days a week. Obviously these benefits might apply more to a child who doesn't have a strong need to dress individually. For what it's worth, the girls seem to wear what they like anyway and no-one wants to be telling 16-18 year old girls what to wear, so they don't.

Definitely agree with the problem of getting a suit that fits a small 16 year old. I had that prob with DS1. I ended up spending a fortune having his suits tailored to fit! Still better than DD’ s 6th form uniform. She went to Marlborough where the 6th form girls move from a fairly typical school uniform to having to wear a full length black skirt that reached their ankles! Fortunately DS2 I seems to be a standard size and much easier to fit!

I judge schools based on academic results and the proportion of pupils who go on to study good degrees (medicine, dentistry, etc) or good universities (red brick, etc).

And you can most definitely judge a school/cohort's behaviour on appearance. As someone who lives near several schools, the children/school who are well dressed usually behave more orderly

Is this post from the 1950’s? We live in a multi cultural multi ability world these days in case you didn’t realise.

I think you are Michael Gove really.

My daughter goes to an all-girl grammar school, they can wear whatever they want; they are still one of top performing schools, so I guess uniform doesn't confer academic success.

My son went to the parallel boy's school, there sixth formers still wore uniform.

The secondaries (we only have grammars and secondaries, no comprehensives in our county), all have to wear business clothes/suits.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I judge schools based on academic results and the proportion of pupils who go on to study good degrees (medicine, dentistry, etc) or good universities (red brick, etc).

And you can most definitely judge a school/cohort's behaviour on appearance. As someone who lives near several schools, the children/school who are well dressed usually behave more orderly

Is this post from the 1950’s? We live in a multi cultural multi ability world these days in case you didn’t realise.

I think you are Michael Gove really.

Absolutely this. Some of the Uk's (dwindling sadly) most successful sectors are in the arts and creative industries. Imposing "suits" and so called "business-wear" is sadly reflective on the "success= job in the city / banking/ civil servis" mentality. Let's give our young people the freedom and credit to take responsibility for their own choices. Who is going to to tell them what to wear at university?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I judge schools based on academic results and the proportion of pupils who go on to study good degrees (medicine, dentistry, etc) or good universities (red brick, etc).

And you can most definitely judge a school/cohort's behaviour on appearance. As someone who lives near several schools, the children/school who are well dressed usually behave more orderly

Is this post from the 1950’s? We live in a multi cultural multi ability world these days in case you didn’t realise.

I think you are Michael Gove really.

Multi culture doesn't have anything to do with adherence to dress/uniform code.

Specifically, as an example, the local comprehensive near me (which has rubbish academic results), has far more boys not wearing blazers, stupidly short ties, silver jewellery and hoodies. And are generally more loutish (if thats a word).

Whereas the local grammar which has very very good academic results, generally has students that are well presented and who stick to the uniform.

Our excellent local comprehensive has no restrictions on what the students wear in the sixth form, excepting no offensive or provocative slogans. I don’t get this smart businesswear thing. Nobody at university wears a smart business suit. Unless they join a particularly posh Oxford drinking club.

@JennyDune
The grammar school gets good results because it's a selective school, not because of the uniform adherence. They'd get the same results in jeans and hoodies.

The 'loutish' behaviour at the comp wouldn't magically improve with a smart blazer and tie. A closer look at the school's management and behaviour of students may be more instructive.

My daughter just started at a new school for sixth form. It's in central London and the clothing rules are fairly relaxed, which surprised me. Her old independent school the sixth formers wore business suits - they had to be dark, but their shirts/blouses could have a pattern.
My daughter loved her uniform though, no stresses about what to wear and all on an even playing field so to speak.

However multi culturalism does have effect on destinations like dentistry, Oxbridge etc which you mention in the first 1/2 of your post.

Kids in grammars (God forbid that grammars exist) usually have a very different home profile, which would tend towards compliance. But they are well behaved because it is a selective school, not just by chance.

Your statement is so narrow minded and bigoted. There is no link between uniform and attainment.

educationendowmentfoundation.org.uk/education-evidence/teaching-learning-toolkit/school-uniform

The school sixth forms here have either uniform or business wear. My son is doing at levels at a sixth form college and can wear what he likes.

My DS wore the same uniform in the sixth form as he had worn throughout school, but with a couple of very minor tweaks (different bow tie, for example).

Other DC (independent schools - day and boarding) wore 'business' type clothes.

I much preferred the proper uniform.

It varies here. The state grammars here have uniform with a different tie, the comps, business wear.

I went to college and loved the freedom to wear whatever I wanted, but this was a very long time ago.