Townley (Bexley) v Dartford Grammar for Girls (Kent) v St Michael's Catholic Grammar (Barnet)

[mcinesi]

Hi there
My daughter has recently passed her 11+ for Bexley, Kent and St Michael's in Barnet and we are now in the enviable position of having to rank them for our CAF .
We visited all 3 schools, my daughter liked them all very much and they are all roughly at the same distance (1 hr) from where we live,.
I was hoping for some help to try and understand their main strenghts and (if any) weaknesses, and more broadly their key differences (i.e. clearly size is one of them...).
Looking at recent years GCSE results, the top performing school would be (I believe) St Michael's, followed by Dartford and finally Townley, but obviously there is so much more than exam results to consider.
Thank you in advance for your help.
M

[Pinkflipflop85]

Dartford girls is one of the hardest schools to get in to in Kent. Try not to pin hope on it.

I would visit and try the walk as well. The walk up west hill is an absolute bastard!

[mcinesi]

Cut off score was 385 in the last 3 years. My daughter scored 391 at last Kent 11+ test, so I figured she might have a good chance...

[peteneras]

Just wondering to myself how good the 2 Kent schools in question on this thread are compared to St Michael's as I did say upthread I know absolutely nothing about them academically or otherwise. So I resorted to a file that I have on my computer/tablet from the Sunday Times Magazine in 2016 (a bit outdated, I know, but I just wanted a quick guide) that shows the nation's best 100 schools - both independent and state - hoping to learn more about the aforesaid Kent schools. Unfortunately, they did not feature anywhere in this Top 100 list whilst St Michael's is placed at No. 67. State schools are highlighted in pink here; note how some famous public schools were rated lesser than St Michael's!

[JoJoSM2]

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/compare-schools?for=secondary

Here's a comparison for 2019.

[peteneras]

A bit blur...

Try here again.

[peteneras]

London Borough of Barnet (LBB) is indeed blessed with some stunning and fantastic state schools if the Sunday Times list is anything to go by:

• at No.8 the Queen Elizabeth's Boys' School (QEB) is the nation's top, as in the apex, state school!

• at No.17 the Henrietta Barnett School is the nation's top (apex) state girls' school!

• at No. 67 St Michael's is the nation's top (apex) Catholic school for both sexes - both state and independent alike!

• at No. 82 the Latymer School though not strictly LBB but Enfield, is another state school totally accessible by LBB residents because it's just next door. Top 100 out of the nation's near 4000(?) secondary school; well, absolutely stunning!

Come and live in LBB for free state schools!

[FanDabbyFloozy]

@peternas also Dame Alice Owen's whose catchment includes many Barnet borough postcodes.

It's interesting that there has been a local backlash against some selective schools, with some no longer sitting HBS or QEB exams because their classmates will travel such distances that teenage meetups are few and far between. Latymer, DAO and St Michael's tends not to have the issue due to catchment, or in the case of St Michael's other Catholic options that mean people are sensible. HBS is trying to reverse that this year which is a great start.

[SisterofMercies]

Many of Barnet's state-funded schools don't really serve the people of Barnet, as amply demonstrated by this thread and umpteen others on these boards over the years. A number of these schools are selective, either by examination (which requires the funds to tutor, in most cases), by religious observance or socially by the age-old method of committing admissions fraud paying a premium for a house in the right area. Barnet is by no means unique in this, but it does have a preponderance of such schools, more so than neighbouring boroughs.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if these undoubtedly excellent schools could serve their actual communities and be realistic options for ordinary local families?

Anyway all this is something of a tangent. It sounds to me - as to many other respondents on here - like the OP needs to move house if she is so determined that her daughter attends one of her chosen schools.

[mcinesi]

Can everyone pls refrain from having an idealogical conversation about the British educational system, selective schools, admission criteria, etc. We all have our opinions regarding this, but the system is what it is and if you are a parent with young children you will try to do all you can to get them in the best possible school.
Pls start a new thread if you feel strongly about this topic.

[mcinesi]

On the other hand, I haven't heard any comment on the jounrey from Greenwich to Dartford; any taker?

[Kwackerly]

I wouldn't do that commute for a job. I live in Greenwich and would allow over an hour to get to Dartford, If she's starting at 8.30 that's a before seven start surely, from isle of dogs? Then getting home about 5 if no clubs? It's a long day and a long journey at her age. I understand wanting the school but practically that sounds very tough. As someone who had a long commute as a kid, I didn't always feel safe, especially in winter with dark evenings. Maybe try the route at the times she would need to do it and see how it feels?

[DarlingOscar]

the ironic thing is that the person shouting the loudest about the fabulous state schools in Barnet declined to send their children there...

OP Greenwich to Dartford and walk is one hell of a journey for an 11 year old. Try it one morning in the rush hour and you'll see. Well done on your dd for passing all these exams but really the schools are all too far away IMO.

[StirFriedBadger]

There are regular problems on the North Kent lines via Dartford. I think the service from Dartford to Greenwich only runs about every half hour so if she misses one or its cancelled it could make a huge difference to the journey.

[DarlingOscar]

Yes - the service from Lewisham/Blackheath is more regular and faster which would make a massive difference.

[mcinesi]

Can we pls stop this non-sense!? Thanks you!

[mcinesi]

I just would like hear from someone that has been brave enough to send their kids to Dartford or one of the Bexley Grammars despite living in Greenwich / Isle of Dogs. Anyone out there!?

[FanDabbyFloozy]

Just answering the point about Barnet schools not being for local kids. There is a lot of truth in that but the tide is turning..

St Michael's has introduced another class this year - every single extra place has priority for girls with pupil premium. The current parents are hugely in favour and this will lower the preparation bar for these girls who can't afford it, but will no doubt flourish while there.
Henrietta Barnett has added priority for local girls from this year. It'll be interesting to see how many they grant as it was for 2nd round only. The 1st round is the hard one to get through. It seems like a nod to the locals but we will see.
Dame Alice Owen's has defined postcodes across Barnet, Enfield and Herts.
Latymer restrict the catchment to certain postcodes too. (Enfield so Barnet benefit from this).

There are dozens of non selective schools that do amazingly well in the Borough - Compton, Archer, JCOSS, Wren, QE Girls, etc. Places on catchment area or religious criteria are as highly sought as those of the academically selective schools.

But there are several admissions black holes across Barnet so DC get the school places that are left over, go to religious (mostly Jewish or CofE) schools or independent. I don't know what the answer is. Brighton moved to a blind lottery system and it wasn't popular.

Only QE Boys refuse to consider a catchment area/access to pupil premium students. But then again they ask 40 boys to leave after GCSE - a bonus to local schools happy to accept them - so they do seem to have their own way of doing things.

[mylesta]

OP, you can search for train performance data at recenttraintimes.co.uk. Since the beginning of September the 0727 Greenwich to Dartford has arrived within 5 mins of schedule (i.e. by 0802) on 92% of journeys; it has been cancelled once and very late twice. Bear in mind though that trains usually have more delays in late autumn and winter.

I would want to know what the school's attitude is to lateness because of train problems. People have posted on other threads that Newstead Wood is understanding about this, but many schools would not be. For me, it would tip the balance between the journey being just about doable or being completely unreasonable, if DD will get a detention every time the trains make her late, or if she has to leave home half an hour earlier to avoid that risk.

[mcinesi]

Thank you mylesta, that's a really helpful comment...

[DarlingOscar]

OP you're quite right - apologies, have reported my posts and asked for them to be removed. have you tried the elevenplus forum to see if anyone has personal experience there?