Would a quiet, shy, bright girl do better at a private school or in the local state secondary with her friends? Where was your quiet child happy?

[SkaterGrrrrl]

DD is only just 9 so I have a bit of time, but need to start getting my head around this. DD is very quiet and shy. She doesn't play with everyone is her class but is fiercely loyal to her one best friend, who has been her best friend from day 1 of reception. DD is pretty bright and in the top set at her lovely state primary.

We had planned to send DD to the large (1300 pupils) state secondary very nearby. When last year's Ofsted downgraded the school to Requires Improvement, the grandparents kindly offered to pay for DD to go private at secondary. Their offer is not just for fees but for everything - uniforms, books, school trips, sports equipment etc. We are grateful for the generous offer but have lots of doubts, some ideological, some practical, mostly we are unsure where a child like this will thrive.

I guess the advice I am looking for is, where will DD be happiest? At the large state secondary, will the teachers even notice her? She will be with her best friend and many other children she knows. She will probably be in the top set academically, if primary is anything to go by. At a private school DD will have to make new friends, which she doesn't do easily. And perhaps she will be in the middle, academically. But with smaller class sizes, the teachers will have the time to discover what's under her quiet exterior.

I'd love to hear where your child thrived.

Hoppinggreen of course it's not always the case but OP did say specifically that her local secondary is significantly closer than all the private options.

KellyMarieTunstall2 our DDs sound very similar.

"Why do you assume someone in the top set at a state primary will not be in a private school? I think your views of private school education are inflated greatly."

ChilledBee I know very little about this and am here to learn. (and am learning a lot from all of you). I was assuming this because the couple of private schools nearby, where I have had a brief look at their websites, say kids have to sit an English and Maths paper and go through an interview process. My thinking was kids at prep school would be geared for this in a way DD wouldn't be.

"Check carefully with local parents and make sure you go to a couple of open days where you can chat freely with the pupils."

Will do, derek

"The ethos in private schools can vary wildly. There are two within three miles of me - one would be perfect for your daughter as it really brings each girl out of their shell, nurtures confidence and is a happy, caring school. At the other she’d get eaten alive (or as a bare minimum ignored)."

Zodlebud, this is excellent intel. But how do I find out which school has the nurturing vibe and which is dog eat dog?

"It has to be about individual schools and where both you and she feels most at home. It’s a bit like buying a house - you instantly know which one is right."

Love this. We moved house not long ago, and there is definitely a "yes" feeling which you can't necessarily articulate but which just feels right.

I didn’t go to a private school but a selective grammar school where I was just one of many “bright” girls. Being there made me feel very average and mediocre, when I had previously thought of myself as smart and capable of achieving anything. As a result I lacked the confidence to apply for better universities and jobs later in life, even though I shouldn’t have. I don’t think that would have happened if I had stayed at a normal comprehensive.

Having said that, I wouldn’t want to send my own children to one that “required improvement” on its most recent Ofsted report.

To be honest, your first inklings of vibes can be got at open days. Even when “on show” there is some more subtle and natural teenage behaviour that sneaks through.

First off I went to see EVERY school in my vicinity when DD was in Y4 by myself or just husband. Some we discounted straight off for obvious factors - poor transport links, lack of extra curricular activities and GCSE subjects she is interested in (she’s arty and dance is being dropped from the curriculum left right and centre).

We then only took her to see the schools we were happy for her to go to in Y5. The way the current students interact with you is so telling. At the first school I referred to the girls seemed genuinely interested in my DD. They really engaged with her and the interaction seemed really natural. At the other school she was looked up and down, the girls only spoke to the grown ups, you could see snide looks between groups of girls and they all had blooming perfect eyebrows. My DD came out and said, “Please don’t send me there mummy”. It was on plain show.

I had heard things about both schools before visiting, and afterwards talking to others and reading these forums showed that it wasn’t just us. The vibes of both schools were well known.

If you want to get this sort of detail then you are better off naming the schools and asking for feedback. It’s all a bit open ended otherwise!!!

As an aside my DD has chosen an independent school as her first choice and a state school (albeit grammar) for her second choice. She just looked totally at home at both. Keep all your options open and don’t be scared of going against the grain. The best schools academically may not be the best for you daughter.

This was me 30 years ago. Send her to the private school. I went the other way and it's a big regret.

Agreed it's definitely not a state v private dilemma you have it's about which school would suit her best. As a quiet shy teen I was fine and did well at an all girls state grammar and would have sunk without trace if boys were present. Didn't hold me back later though
Private schools vary wildly, just as state do, in fact probably even more so. Look around everything available, when school is working, not just open evenings.

I think the private school would've ether for your daughter. The teachers in my sons school know the pupils so well and the pastoral care is amazing add to that the small class sizes and it allows the shyer pupils to come out of themselves.

As for the poor relation thing, I found at private schools the kids care far less about names and what you have and don't have. In his state school my son was quite concerned about having branded things now he doesn't care less, in fact his rugby boots were too small for him and I didn't order new ones in time for the first match of the season so he dug out DHs which are at least 20 years old and wore them. This would never ever hD happened before.

Agree with PP, the poor relation thing is a bit of a myth although I guess it does depend on the school again. My DC is at a small private school and there is absolutely no sneering about designer brands, ski holidays or whatever. In fact it appears much less of an issue than friends who have similar age kids in state school. I certainly wouldn't let that put you know off.

*put you off!

No idea where that 'know' came from

In his state school my son was quite concerned about having branded things now he doesn't care less, in fact his rugby boots were too small for him and I didn't order new ones in time for the first match of the season so he dug out DHs which are at least 20 years old and wore them. This would never ever hD happened before

This is our experience, in fact the coolest things are the most knackered looking, vintage hand me downs. Baggy trackies and huge old t shirts. No brands. It's great!

Dd went to State Primary and Private Secondary so we know a lot of DC from both and I agree with the previous posters who say that there is more pressure for designer gear etc at the State school. It will depend on the school but at DDs school anyone being “flash” gets the piss taken out of them mercilessly whereas her friends from the State Secondary tend to be dripping in ( genuine) designer gear, especially the boys.

Larger schools have their advantages. More choice of people to make friends with

Agree with this. Paradoxically I think that smaller year groups can be ok for the very confident dc who find making friends easy, but not so good for the less socially assured dc. As other pp have said, the wider range of dc in a large yr group means that the quieter ones are more likely to find like minded people.

The other thing I'd say is not to take into account the fact that dd would be going with a friend. Whether a bf, or a less good friend, they may ditch her on day one or during term 1, however well they seem to be getting on in yrs 5 and 6 (sorry! it sounds so brutal, but sadly does happen). In some cases, depending on the friendship, it may even be a factor against the school - sounds drastic I know, and probably only in extreme circumstances.

I have a bright shy DD who followed in her brothers footsteps up to state secondary.

DS thrived in the local state school. He had slight learning difficulties which they were incredibly supportive and he had a large group of friends.

All of the advantages for DS weren't applicable for DD. She ended up bored with no friends. In year 8 she decided that she needed to move and we looked at local private. She was unhappy at school. Didn't need to try as the work was too easy and if she did well some of the other kids called her names. So she just gave up and became quiet and withdrawn.

We narrowed it down to 5 schools which we then saw and she chose her favourite.

After 2 years in the state secondary her confidence was very low and the photo from the first day was with her hair covering her face and standing with her hands in her pockets looking at the floor. She has now just started year 10 and the difference is staggering.

She has come on leaps and bounds socially as well as academically. Her photo this year was of her laughing with her friends, hair tied back and looking at the camera.

She didn't know anyone at the new school and now has a lovely group of friends and boyfriend. She is confident and self assured. Her peers don't ridicule her because she wants to do well and money is not discussed.

She isn't interested in name brands and happy if her uniform is second hand (as they are encouraged to buy second hand to save the environment).

I couldn't be happier. I feel like we got the old DD back.

Choose the school that is right for her if you have the ability to. Trust your instincts and let her be a part of the decision.

Oh and in regards to class sizes. There is between 15 and 18 children in her class. Now she's taken her options a few of the classes are even smaller (I think 10 in her Spanish class).

She can't hide or coast in a small class and her peers support her. She knows everyone in her year and has friends in all her classes.

To be honest, I would hesitate to split her up from her friends, especially the best friend since reception. Especially as she is someone who opens up (so relaxes and feels comfortable) around people she knows well and trusts, and clams up in unknown company.

I moved primary school at 8 away from my best friend. It was a big wrench for me. I did make friends at the new primary school, but it was by being part of a larger group centred round a bit of a queen bee , which came with quite a lot of downsides (someone was always being the one cast “out”- it rotated but it was nerve wracking, and generally a lot of politics). The quieter, more introverted and/or more loyal friend type girls had already paired up.

Then I went to a different secondary school (grammar) than everyone at my new primary school. I did meet a few people I’d known at my first primary, but too much time had passed. So the first couple of years was pretty much about getting to know new people, and it was difficult especially as I walked home in a different direction/lived in a different neighbourhood than all of them.

It wasn’t a snobbishness thing, just a “limited opportunities to get to know people outside classes” thing. It wasn’t until I was in my third year that I really started to have a stable friendship group, but again, that was very much as primary school- larger group round a queen Bee. It was less fraught than primary school re the dynamics, but I would have been a lot better in a pair with a best friend, and us both being friends with more pairs IYSWIM. It would also just have saved me a lot of time and energy to devote to my studies.

Went to a wedding recently, where the maid of honour made a speech. She told how she and the bride had been friends since playgroup, gone through primary school, secondary school and university together, shared the highs and lows, always had one another’s backs and been the other’s rock. I don’t think you get many shots at that.

I’d select the private school in these circumstances, but a day school to avoid feeling like ‘the poor relationship’. Plenty of pupils will be paid for by grandparents!

What does DD think OP?

I do agree that schools have different 'personalities' but I also think that can vary from year to year - some years can be much friendlier and kinder than others, and there is no way of predicting this in advance!

The 'feeder schools' (either from the in-school prep or, and this includes state schools, groups from local primaries) can be an issue as well - secondary school should try to dilute these groups and encourage integration, but this doesn't always seem to occur to them.

Starry's post is another very interesting perspective on whether to try to stay with primary school friends when choosing secondary. I think very often secondary school friendships are on the 'group based round top bod (s)' model - not ideal, but for some reason that is how it works out. In some ways though a group, although it brings its own problems, is safer than just one best friend as a dc can be left high and dry if that bf moves school, or even wants to move into a different group of friends/make a new bf.

She sounds to me like she'll be happy at either. Comp has the advantage of friend. Private has all the other advantages

DD is shy and in primary school there were only 5 girls in her class so she was used to the boys taking over etc.
She went to guides to meet more girls and these were the girls she stayed friends with in secondary school although it all changes a bit when they're streamed for GCSEs.
She is still quiet ,had now started college with no friends from school and is getting along as most are in the same boat.
Being near to school is great as friendships after school can be maintained more easily.
Visit the schools,see how they feel.My DD state school was failing when she started and is now good with good exam results so a school already in trouble will go up as it gets the changes it needs

It's been a busy few days so sorry I haven't managed responses to each of you. I really appreciate your stories. So much to consider that hadn't crossed my mind!

Main take home is that it's not private vs state but the ethos of the school - the place that gives us and DD that 'yes feeling'. Plenty of visits, then take DD to the short list.

So reassured to hear the 'poor relation' worry is unfounded.

Definitely need to look at the reason for the poor Ofsted at the state secondary, and make a judgement about whether it will improve.

Yes, shy DD may not be shy at 12 or 13!

"I’d select the private school in these circumstances, but a day school ..."

Thanks chocolate, we wouldn't consider boarding.

"What does DD think OP?"

Great point happycamper. We have only talked in very general terms. Eg that there are lots of schools nearby and we will need to choose one.