Greenwich/Blackheath Secondary schools advice please

[tigerbear]

Hi all,
I’m based on the edge of Greenwich/Blackheath and really struggling to find decent state schools that look decent. Only ones I’ve found so far are Thomas Tallis and Addey & Stanhope, neither of which I particularly like the sound of (mainly because their GCSE results are below average, and that students entering the school in Y7 who are very able aren’t pushed or challenged enough).

Can anyone recommend any?
And re grammar schools - do you def have to be based in Kent to stand any kind of a chance of getting in?

Am considering all options atm, inc private.
If anyone has any recommendations, I’d be grateful. DD is going into Y4 in Sept, but I’m already receiving advice from a relative who worked as a Head Teacher and Ofsted inspector that we shouldn’t leave it any later to start research.

@jhb2013 I’m very appreciative of all help and suggestions, thank you, I didn’t mean to offend. I was just surprised when I looked on their website as was expecting a difference of a couple of thousand rather than hundred.

@ourkidmolly yup, totally agree. I’m not really sold on the Bexley area (sorry if I offend anyone), as we are very settled and happy in Greenwich. The houses I saw on Rightmove last night didn’t really excite me.

@DarlingOscar ah, I’d forgotten about Greycoats, it has been mentioned to me before. Going to take a look now...

Those who have mentioned journey times, that’s def a factor putting me off the grammars, and schools a bit further afield, such as JAG’s.
At the moment, I still like the look of Colfe’s, so going to book an open day.

OP, if you can afford the fees comfortably enough, you might as well stay put and look at Colfes, Blackheath High or other local indies. It does seem a bit unnecessary to put DD through a long commute if you don't need to.

On the Bexley front - I drove through there the other week and loved the fields and horses etc

@JoJoSM2 - that’s just it though, I’m not sure I could comfortably afford private.
I have my own business, so salary fluctuates massively month to month. I’m not with DD’s dad, and he has a step daughter (same age as DD, so she’d be starting secondary at the same time), and a much younger DD with his new wife.
I think he’d kick up a massive fuss if I propose to send DD private and claim he can’t afford to send all three. He’s on over 100k, but I can see it may be a struggle to send them all.
So, if I want DD to go, I may have to pay all, or the majority, myself

OP, 7 years of fees, more expensive uniforms and lunches + other stuff can easily add up to 150k. If you feel it could put you under pressure, it’s worth exploring state options more.

Another suggestion. If you feel you might be willing to move within SE London but aren’t feeling the vibe of outer burbs, how about Beckenham? I’d say it’s kind of on the cusp of inner/outer burbs with a lovely centre and plenty of parks around.
Langley Park Girls is in Beckenham. It’s a high achieving comp with excellent progress scores. I think the top set or two wouldn’t be dissimilar to being in a grammar. Another good catchment would be Harris Girls Bromley (very good too but not quite as wow as Langley).
If you lived in Beckenham, you’d also be closer to the grammars. Should your daughter manage to secure a place, her commute would be more manageable.

Beckenham is very nice but the bit near the Langley comps is utterly soulless, we drove round it recently, I would hate to live there!

With regard to distance, I know it's slightly different in London but both DH and I went to non-local privates and didn't have any local friends at all.

Horses for courses... I'd hate to live in zones 2-3: pokey terraced housing, pollution, traffic, lack of proper greenery etc...

Anyway, looking at Bromley admissions, Langley Park Girls has admitted from 1.3-1.4miles based on distance (straight line) in the last 3 years. That should be far enough to get away from the outer burbs bit if someone doesn't like it?

it's not the 'outer burbs' I'm talking about, it's the bit specifically around Langley (Langley Park is the area, I think?). Honestly, it's like Stepford.

My DD is at Dartford Girls Grammar and there are a lot of girls there from areas such as Lewisham, Eltham, Blackheath and even Nunhead.
The admissions there is based on passing the Kent 11+. A certain proportion of places go to local girls who have passed, and then a certain proportion are offered to the wider area and offered based on score achieved in the 11+.
Girls travel to Dartford station and walk up to the school from there.

Honestly, it's like Stepford.
I think that's often the vibe of the more affluent outer burbs.

nope, I come from an affluent outer suburb (not south east London, though). It's this specific area. Go and have a wander around.

CassianAndor, you've piqued my interest. I might drive over one day and see if it's any different to where I live or some other similar burbs.

Why not try for a scholarship and/or bursary? The Dulwich schools are pretty well endowed and the school bus from Blackheath takes about 45 minutes.

This autumn is a good time to start having a look at a few schools - look on the Lewisham, Greenwich and Bexley websites for the 'starting secondary school in 2020' booklets. They will usually list the open days for the secondary schools as well as explaining the application process.

I'm assuming your daughter is at All Saints - I can't think of any other state primary in the area where there's likely to be talk of tutoring since Reception! There are plenty of good state schools in your area and I'd recommend that you visit them, follow them on Twitter and read their newsletters/news section of their websites regularly to get a feel for what goes on. I've got friends with teenagers at John Roan, Eltham Hill, Thomas Tallis, Newstead Woods, the three Prendergast schools, Trinity in Lewisham, Bexley Grammar, Dartford Grammar, Beths Grammar, Townley Grammar, Colfes, St Dunstan's, Sedgehill, Sydenham Girls, Kingsdale, St Matthew, Haberdasher Askes (Hatcham and Knights), the IAG... as well as other schools I've probably forgotten. They are all decent schools but what suits one child may not suit another. Most schools round here admit children based on their home to school distance. A few (Prendergast Hilly Fields, Haberdasher Askes Hatcham and Kingsdale) offer music scholarships for about 10% of each cohort. The grammar schools in Bexley offer places on the basis of home to school distance only if a child is deemed selective in the tests (11+) but children whose score is in the top 180 of scorers get their choice of grammar regardless of where they live. If you are interested in continuing at a CE school, do visit Trinity; it's a much smaller school than many in the area and I know of a number of children who have thrived there because of its caring, pastoral approach. It's also worth knowing that many of us who live in a similar area to you have made a positive choice to send our children to local comprehensives, even if they had a guaranteed place at one of the grammar schools. There's a lot to be said for attending a school that is local and for which there is no need to be dependent upon the vagaries of the trains. The Y11 children I know who have come away with all grade 8s and 9s are those at the local comprehensives, not the ones at the grammars or the private schools - they've been noticed, nurtured and pushed by their schools and have benefited from it.

@SE13Mummy correct, she’s at All Saints.
I suppose my concern at the thought of her going to a massive comprehensive is because AS is so small and nurturing.
I think it might be a big shock for her, and am concerned at the thought of her feeling a bit lost in such a place. Partly based on my own experiences (many years ago!) of going to a state comp where the education was only just passable.

But your comments - and those of others on here - have given me a lot of food for thought, and I’ll be looking into setting up appointments at a good range of both private, state and grammar.
Thanks so much for all the feedback everyone.

By the time your daughter is 11, she may well be desperate to be a small fish in a bigger pond! Have a look at the destinations of AS children - 6 or 7 each year go to a grammar, approx. 10ish go to a fee-paying school and the rest go to Greycoats or a comprehensive school.

I'm aware from friends whose children have attended All Saints that there tends to be a lot of angst about secondary school places - it's easier said than done but try not to be too swayed by the opinions and hearsay of school parents.

@SE13Mummy wow, thanks for that link, I didn’t even know that information was on the school website! That’s so helpful. Very interesting, and although I knew that it was very scattered and diverse, I was surprised at just how much! I was expecting say 5 at one school, 4 at another, not one here, 2 there etc.

I realise this may be a stupid question - and I suspect I already know what the answer will be, but with independents and grammar schools, if there are siblings or step siblings applying to the same school (in the same school year), do they both automatically get in (if they’ve scored enough in the entrance exams)?

It depends. There are some partially selective state schools where if one child passes on test the other siblings get in on sibling rule. For fully selective grammar schools the child still has to pass the test but a sibling may put them in a sibling category rather than an out of county category which might require a higher score. For those that go by score and not just a pass then siblings are usually treated just the same as everyone else.

Selective Independents will all have their own rules but from experience I’ve seen they can be a little more ‘flexible’ for siblings who might not have made the full grade, nothing at all to do with donations to the floodlight campaign...

It will depend on the admissions criteria. Some of the grammars e.g. in Bexley, offer places on the basis of home to school distance (after the top 180, children with EHCPs, siblings already at the school etc) have been offered places. If siblings or step siblings were both deemed selective and both lived at the same address, then they'd stand an equal chance of getting in. If they don't live together then the sibling rule doesn't tend to apply. For a definitive answer you'd need to check the policy of each school.

Thank you @PettsWoodParadise and @SE13Mummy. Pettswood - what do you mean by the floodlight campaign?

Independents are always asking for more money on top of fees. DD was at an independent for primary. They were raising money for floodlights of one of the pitches. Gossip was someone who made a substantial donation got a poor performance in entrance exam overlooked. I’ve heard similar at other schools. How true they all are I couldn’t say. In the press recently was all the hoohah over university admissions in the US mostly but some over here and people buying places so it does happen.

@PettsWoodParadise wow, that’s pretty shocking

The grammar schools in Bromley and Bexley areas take pupils who live outside. I live in Greenwich Borough and both of my next door neighbours' children went to Chis & Sid. Others have gone to Newstead and St Olave's.

There's also a good comprehensive in - Coopers in Chislehurst.

I wouldn’t move house to be close enough to Coopers. If it happens to be nearby it isn’t the worst school but it’s progress 8 score is below average and for high prior attainers it is even worse, well below average.

If moving out, you'd probably really want to avoid Coopers. You'd probably move to Beckenham or maybe Bromley or Hayes to get a good comp catchment.