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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Bits of news on the grammar school issue

266 replies

HPFA · 07/04/2017 18:48

Two snippets of news

schoolsweek.co.uk/film-company-targets-grammar-teachers-in-recruitment-video/?utm_content=bufferb7668&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Unclear exactly why grammar teachers are being targeted to tempt people into teaching. Perhaps to tempt recruits by suggesting they can have a nice career only teaching the easy kids.

And another piece of news:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-church-england-not-interested-opening-new-grammar-schools

This is perhaps hardly surprising. Since faith schools are already so heavily criticised for being socially exclusive it would hardly do the C of E's image much good to open up schools explicitly targeting the already advantaged. Still welcome news to those of us on the pro-comprehensive side.

OP posts:

roundaboutthetown · 13/04/2017 10:59

Not many children already have a specific focus and career plan mapped out at age 11.

portico · 13/04/2017 11:02

No but having technical schools to make choices from Y9/10 would be useful

noblegiraffe · 13/04/2017 11:06

UTCs (technical colleges) are closing down as quickly as they open because parents don't want to send their kids there.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 13/04/2017 11:11

My job is offering support to UTCs. They can't recruit - staff or students - and are dead on their feet.

portico · 13/04/2017 11:12

I likebeans, shame I did not realise that about tech schools.

Peregrina · 13/04/2017 11:13

UTCs (technical colleges) are closing down as quickly as they open because parents don't want to send their kids there.

One of the problems here is that this isn't the natural transfer age. If we had retained a middle school system extending them to 14, instead of 12 or 13, so that all children had to chose a new school at that stage then they might have been more successful.

noblegiraffe · 13/04/2017 11:16

The government spent £9 million on this UTC which closed down 3 years after opening because of low pupil numbers, and of the kids who did go there, NONE of them passed GCSE maths and English.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/new-state-art-9m-school-9776436

And yet the government continues to push forward with this failed money-wasting initiative as well.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 13/04/2017 11:18

Not true Peregrina - I work in an area with middle schools and the UTC round here was one of the first to go.

LooseAtTheSeams · 13/04/2017 11:29

It is a shame. My mum went to a tech school in Bexley years and years ago that had an academic path for uni as well as vocational courses - including what would now be access to nursing. She did the secretarial course because her family needed the money - so she still missed out on uni. And she was on free school meals. There never was that golden age...!
While I don't support the policy I certainly don't blame anyone for sending their kids to existing grammars - they are very good schools! I just don't accept that the government's plans will achieve what they claim and I think it's dishonest of them to say otherwise. They could do things differently and achieve a lot more.

Peregrina · 13/04/2017 11:34

OK Beans I didn't know that. What though was the transfer age from the Middle School and the entry age to the UTC?

Round here (Oxfordshire) only Oxford City had middle schools and they got rid of them some considerable time ago. There are one or two UTCs but I don't know how they are fairing.

BertrandRussell · 13/04/2017 11:37

The trouble is that some people are still stuck in a world where the bosses and proper professional people came from private school, the lower level professional people and the managerial class went to grammar school, the skilled workers went to technical colleges and everyone else- the labouring classes went to secondary moderns. Well, that was how it was supposed to work. But society isn't like that any more.

Peregrina · 13/04/2017 11:41

My mum went to a tech school in Bexley years and years ago that had an academic path for uni as well as vocational courses

Ditto for my FIL and Grandfather. The two schools that they went to (at differing times) both offered science and a couple of languages, I think French and German, as well as offering practical skills like shorthand and typing. Both FIL and Grandfather were the beneficiaries of this curriculum. They weren't offered every where, that was the problem, but it's a pity they didn't make them national post the 1944 education act. What they didn't offer was Latin and Greek which was the preserve of the Grammars. GF was sufficiently well prepared by his education to go on to qualify as a Civil Engineer, as well as being sent on ahead during WW1 to find billets for the troups, because he could speak French. FIL qualified with a trade and spoke German.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 13/04/2017 11:42

Peregrina - there were tow transfer pints, supposedly to recognise various things - but , in general, the transfer from middle school could be direct to a UTC. Parents are very wary of anything new fangled on the whole and the UTCs just haven't taken off.

What teacher really would want to go and work in one. for example??

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 13/04/2017 11:42

Two - sorry!

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 13/04/2017 11:42

And not pints - maybe that would have been an incentive...

Peregrina · 13/04/2017 11:47

And not pints - maybe that would have been an incentive...

It's all to do with our lack of respect for technical education, IMO.

Original poster

HPFA · 13/04/2017 11:57

ncee.org/swiss-vet/

Switzerland is generally seen as having high-standard vocational education where participants actually get paid. According to the above article they are still worried about parents thinking the academic route has higher prestige - this seems to be an intractable obstacle.

OP posts:

flyingwithwings · 13/04/2017 12:04

You don't think it is still like that !

You could characterize today as such

Public School :Judges, FTSE Bosses, City Traders , 'Pop Stars' Media Personalities Reality TV stars Made in Chelsea basically , or basically the majority of people or families making all the money.

Private school /Grammar or Affluent Comps/Moderns : Managers of Small Businesses or owners and Operators of small family Firms (many working for below 'minimum wage' to keep going)

Inner City/Deprived Comps/Moderns : Zero Hours Contract jobs wages made up by Tax Handouts odd sportsmen it !

flyingwithwings · 13/04/2017 12:05

Odd sportsman makes it !

Interestingly most 'sports woman' come from advantaged backgrounds !

Original poster

HPFA · 13/04/2017 12:50

Nice thread here but all anecdotal of course!!

twitter.com/MichaelRosenYes/status/852431381653327872

OP posts:

portico · 13/04/2017 13:09

Btw, grammar schools should also benefit non working families - otherwise, they are not inclusive.

Ps, I hate the lab ed secretary.....all bluster and out of her depth

Original poster

HPFA · 13/04/2017 15:40

And this:

twitter.com/miss_mcinerney/status/852520878130778112

Not sure how you're going to have schools specialising in Maths when there's a shortage of maths teachers and most of those talented in Maths will be in the grammars! As for Music, apart from the small number at very specialist schools the vast majority will not want an education specialising in music. And of course, there won't be comprehensives there will be a "choice" of secondary moderns.

OP posts:

noblegiraffe · 13/04/2017 16:13

One of the 131 free schools approved yesterday was the Cambridge Mathematics School (16-19) which I suppose is supposed to be like the KCL Maths school.

However, when I tried to google it to get some info, it seems to have zero web presence, and the most pertinent thing I got was a news article from the group Cambridge Mathematics saying that they wanted excellent maths teaching for all and not just for those in specialist schools. So no idea who is setting up the Cambridge Maths School.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/all-students-should-receive-excellent-maths-teaching-not-just-those

www.constructionenquirer.com/2017/04/12/government-approves-more-than-130-free-schools/

DoctorDonnaNoble · 13/04/2017 16:16

And grammars struggle to recruit mathematicians too! Part of the reason we've started keeping a closer eye on what former students are up to.

Original poster

HPFA · 13/04/2017 18:52

I think the whole government is rather short of anyone with the mathematical understanding of a ten year old. This is a graph issued by the Dept for Exiting the EU showing what a successful trading nation we will be after Brexit.

twitter.com/dexeugov/status/852534216025939968

Seems the D of E is not the only Department short of statisticians.

OP posts:

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