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Secondary education

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Original poster

Where to start with prepping 5 yr old for grammar/private school entrance exam

72 replies

crystalgall · 05/03/2017 19:03

DS is 5 and in reception.

I know nothing really about how the entrance exams work.

I know they do an 11+ and that's probably about it.

Where do I start? What do I need to be doing?

DS is keen and enthusiastic about school, loves reading. I have no idea if he has what it takes for the exams but figured I should think about where to start from now and give him a chance.

Any help and advice appreciated!

OP posts:
crazycrofter · 06/03/2017 09:07

I agree with the music lessons idea too! Both mine started piano in the year before the 11 plus. It challenges their brain in new ways that just doing more maths and English doesn't. My daughter in particular found it hard - and for her it was her first experience of struggling with something and having to work at it - a very valuable experience to have, in my opinion.

Alternatively, if you start early enough and they're talented you potentially open up the door for music scholarships.

user1466518624 · 06/03/2017 09:53

Are you in a Prep? If so they will probably start introducing verbal/non verbal in Year 3 and generally it's given as weekly homework. If you are in State you can do this easily as the Bond books used are readily available on Amazon or any bookstore.

If it's a Private Senior School and it has a Prepyou could save yourself the hassle and get him in before the end of Year 2 or put him in for the 7 plus entry at the end of Year 2.

If you are in a Grammar School area there will be loads of tutors around and often it's a case of word of mouth from other parents. State Schools generally don't prepare for 11 plus but some get around it by offering it as an after school club.

It can seem daunting but don't worry and there's nothing wrong with being prepared, that time will come around so quickly, hth x

Wimbles101 · 06/03/2017 11:05

I think OP is in London - if she is is SW/Surrey as I suspect the Grammars are super selective unfortunately and good privates are too if not more so - many people with bright kids left disappointed - so I can understand her concern.

Forearmed is forewarned so I do understand the concern - my DS 2 is only in Year 2 burn believe me there are plenty in local state and preps who are already hothousing - it's awful and escalating to the extent that's an above average kid will struggle without proper prep

Original poster
crystalgall · 06/03/2017 11:20

I'm in East London. There are a few options available but not many. Competition will be rife.

Everyone says yr 5 but as one poster pointed out I need to book tutors from yr 3! (If I go down the tutor route). So it's not really that long away.

OP posts:
EnormousTiger · 06/03/2017 11:37

Pick the schools you would like the child to go at 11+ and then have a look at what schools they come from and what exam papers are like. Some private schools put example papers on their websites. Some prep schools will be preparing children for 11+ or 13+ school entry.

I never felt my chidlren's private prep schools hot housed at all by the way- they did loads of music, sport and were quite relaxed about academic work although they were certainly ahead of most state sector primaries principally because most of the children who get in have a fairly high IQ so obviously they are on average going to do better.

amidawsh · 06/03/2017 12:59

You need to give more info really so people can help and you probably can't answer these for a few years

  • which secondaries would you ideally like?
  • are you looking at academic independents, state grammar (if so, which, the competition varies enormously) or "just" an independent (many are really not hard to get into)
  • do you need/want/ your ds has any particular talent that may lead to a scholarship?
  • are the schools you're aiming at a common destination from your primary school?
amidawsh · 06/03/2017 13:01

btw i had dd's name down with a Tiffin tutor in yr1 (to start 4 years later). We decided not to go down that route and i pulled out before the assessment. If you hear of a good tutor get your name down the earlier the better, even if you think it's crazy madness (like i did) it doesn't harm to put a name down.

hesterton · 06/03/2017 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whataboutbob · 06/03/2017 13:55

hesterton that sounds like the best advice I've read in a while.
I'm prepping DS2 (yr 5) for Grammar schools tests in Sept and have been doing some of the above. As he's more naturally able in Maths I surreptitiously widen his vocab by introducing more complex words as you suggest above. And we're reading Agatha Christie together! But I'm not deluding myself, it is a very tough ands competitive fight to get in down here.

Wimbles101 · 06/03/2017 15:36

Sorry EnourmousTiger I wrote my last post in a hurry - I meant the parents at these schools are ultra competitive and are already doing a lot of extra work with their 6/7 year olds...even writing that annoys me!

Such is London parenting - I am seriously considering just opting out of the whole thing with DS2 ...

EnormousTiger · 06/03/2017 16:29

Good advice from hesterton above. Some of my sons' friends who are Asian who are just bright as they are are let down by poor spoken and written English and grammar and accent and in some cases cultural capital. I second learning instruments - ideally pick classical orchestral instruments which are useful for the school orchestra (and the piano) and get through some of the exam grades and grade 5 music theory at primary school if you can. And just relax and enjoy life too.

Chess is another good one. My father taught by brother in secret at bed times when he was 5. I heard about it and age10 got myself a library book on teach yourself chess and learned without a chess board to surprise them.

Wimbles101 · 06/03/2017 16:59

EnormousCapital - sorry sorry - did I hear right: can we have less of massive generalisations and stereotypes about Asian kids - I'm second gen Asian and my kids are half Asian and we suffer from none of your supposed attributes of Asian people thanks very much.

What classical music has to do with anything I do not know - my DS actually is an accomplished musician but what has that got to do with getting a good school place? To grade 5 no less!

Wimbles101 · 06/03/2017 17:00

And they certainly don't suffer from poor written or spoken English - so you actually know any Asian people?!

hesterton · 06/03/2017 17:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EnormousTiger · 06/03/2017 17:30

I don't think it would be helpful to debate it but it is so in their school. Now that might be unique to their school but I am just pointing out. It also applies to white British families with poor grammar and accent and spelling too of course.

The Sutton Trust has found that things like social and cultural capital hold people back as much as poor exam results so things like learning an instrument is a good idea.

Wimbles101 · 06/03/2017 17:42

EnormoisTiger I would suggest you make a few less generalisation about a whole section of society based on your clearly very limited experience

originalbiglymavis · 06/03/2017 17:49

Don't forget that it's not just academic achievement.

Schools also look for bright, curious and confident kids. They like to see interests and hobbies outside of school and if a child musical, arty or sporty, dont forget scholarships.

Schools have different 'types' - so some want enthusiastic, directed learners, whereas others may look for the little 'absent minded professor' types (bright and very self directed).

Your current school should be able to direct you to the 'right' school for your childs personality.

ohforfoxsake · 06/03/2017 19:06

State Grammar schools here (up North) are purely academic achievement. It's about how well you do on the day. They don't give two hoots about any extra-curricular stuff.

Do the open days in Year 4, before you seriously invest time and effort. Get a feel. Look at ALL the local schools in year 4.

You DC will probably just want to go where their mates are going anyway. Grin

whataboutbob · 06/03/2017 19:55

Wimbles- FWIW I don't think that what enormoustiger is saying is that outrageous. If parents are 1st generation immigrants and english is not spoken fluently in the home and passing/ failing comes down to a few grade points then those kids will be at a disadvantage. She's not saying all south asian kids underperform in english. If my DS1 's class is anything to go by they were over represented amongst the kids sitting the GS tests, but few achieved a place. As you mentioned, you are second generation and your partner is not of Asian heritage, that is hardly comparable to the families enormous is describing.

hesterton · 06/03/2017 21:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Notenoughsleepmumof3 · 07/03/2017 09:35

He's 5. Please just let him be a child and explore and learn. If he loves reading that's great. Don't stunt his development with this prep at his age.

poisonedbypen · 07/03/2017 09:47

State schools can't select on "type" or extra curricular activities. That would be illegal.

Notenoughsleepmumof3 · 07/03/2017 10:30

I'm a London Parent. I am not a Tigermum. I've encouraged my children to be curious and enjoy play from the very beginning. I've let them be messy with paint and play dough, etc. They all started at our local primary school. Not a great school, BTW. DD went all the way through, Removed DS2 in yr 5 because of bullying, and too DS3 out to join his brother. They read. They ask questions. I talk to them. I've been through the 11+ process 2x now successfully. Top private offers with scholarships as well as top selective state/grammar places. You can't drill intelligence, you can only nurture it. Do not stunt this development. There is only so much prep you can do for these exams, which is just getting them to understand the type of questions, the time issue, and being able to relax through it. In other words, it shouldn't matter that much. If you stunt them so early on, they will always be trying to do the right answer which is probably boring, instead of using critical/creative thinking. That is what will make a child excel at school.

Wimbles101 · 07/03/2017 13:05

whataboutbob - that's weird because at my son's school the kids who were offered Grammars are all Asian or of mixed heritage - very wrong to generalise

Notenoughsleepmumof3 · 07/03/2017 14:10

We are not Asian yet my kids play instruments. Never forced them. Music is in our house all the time. It was just natural that they would pick something up. My kids were offered grammars and indies...I don't care what culture or class or race or religion my children go to school with as long as they are learning and loving school. The more mix the better. That is the real world. Nice people come in all colours and so do a..holes. These generalisations are too much and very ignorant and certainly won't be helping to develop an open and smart mind in households if that nonsense is being thrown about.