Is it okay to only list your 1st preference in the secondary school application form?

[spanna786]

Hello! It would be great to hear your views on this- I've been totally bewildered by the whole process with all the conflicting information out there. The deadline for submitting the secondary school application is drawing ever closer - and I'm still unsure of what I should be doing.

The headmaster at the my 1st choice school for my 10 year old advised me to only put their school down on the application form. He said that if I put down other options (and the form states putting down 6 choices in all) that I might get the 6th choice, in which case appealing that decision becomes much more difficult as I've would have effectively been given on of my choices.

The school is actually close to me - we just fall into their catchment area, but not other criteria apply to my child (e.g. SEN, or the sibling rule).

Should I do as suggested as only put down the one school? The application form, the council and all the guidance I've read so far suggest putting down 6 choices in order of preference otherwise you might get allocate a really rubbish school that is miles away.

Parents I've spoken to suggest being strategic about what you 2nd-6th choices are - but again that seems a little risky as you might get one of those choices.

Would be grateful if anyone had any advice on this?

Thanks
Spanna

I'm surprised too - as most schools I know moan a bit about home much time and money it costs for Appeals (the Head is often out for days at them).

Dd didn't get her first choice school, despite every child from our area getting in every year since as far back as our long serving primary head could remember. Some people had only put one school for that reason and their children faced a long commute to a crappy school because that's all they were offered.

In your case though HMSSaCM was there anything the parents could have done?

You often see questions on MN from people who will say stuff like

"I really ilke School A, but it's a faith school and we don't attend church so a bit of a long shot. School B is also not bad but we probably live a bit too far away to get in. And then there is the catchment school down the road, which I don't really like but I guess DC would get into."

And they are advised to put A, B,C in that order, on their form. If this is the year that it turns out that DC don't get into C either, they are basically stuck despite having done everything "right" in terms of the admissions form.

Redsky- there are 2 other half decent schools in our area and 1 school which is rubbish generally undersubscribed and on a difficult bus route. Guess which one they got, because they didn't use their other choices.

Telling parents to put it down as a first choice, yes, but why only choice

Many heads don't understand how school admissions work. I suspect that heads who say this think it is some kind of "best fit" system that aims to ensure as many people as possible get one of their preferences. If that were so their advice would be correct as a best fit system could decide to give you your second preference in order to avoid leaving someone else with a school that wasn't one of their preferences. However, the system doesn't work like that. If you qualify for a place for your first preference it will be offered to you.

IT seems a lot of posters now seem worried about not getting their catchment area school because they meet no other admission criteria. It is well worth taking the time to check admissions at the catchment school to see the distance they have admitted children and whether all catchment children have been admitted for as many years as possible. Not just one year. Also, parents do seem to build up knowledge about whether all catchment children are admitted. I know loads of people around me put the catchment school only and it has admitted all catchment children since time began! You will get in! Having said that, I personally would never put down just one school, but where I live, the golden rule is always put down the catchment school, always.

When I used to work in education, we had a secondary school Head (25 years ago) who always told parents to put his school top of the preference form and he would guarantee their child was admitted. He then spent every waking hour badgering the LA to increase his intake! Ahhh - those were the days of LA power and simultaneously being held to ransom!

It depends where you live. I live in rural Wales, in the catchment area for two schools both around seven miles from my house. Most people put just one school on their application. I have never heard of anyone being turned down (both schools are good, just different). So here it would be fine. But it sounds as though your circumstances are very different to mine.

Just remember, just because it's never happened before, doesn't mean it won't happen this year as in my case.

When we looked around our two local secondaries, the headteacher of one told us that we should put it as the only choice, because if we didn't the LA would do some 'shuffling around' and we might get our second or third choices.
The headteacher of the other school told us that if we want a place we had to put it first, as they never offered places to second or third choices. He said that we would definitely get a place if we put it first, despite the fact that we're way out of catchment (he said we may have to appeal twice, but we'd definitely end up with a place).

I know lots of places where "everyone always gets in from there" becomes suddenly only siblings have got in.
In fact my road has apparently been that in some recent years (and if applying now I would have to use the religious card to hope to get my DC into the least worst school as a back up).

It seems really odd that a school would go from "everyone always gets in" to "nobody gets in". Unless "something" had changed in the area that would have been known about - high birth rate, large new building development, neighbouring school going downhill etc ...

I'm also in the "everyone always get in" category. I've only put catchment school on the form because I don't have a genuine alternative - the only schools that DD would otherwise get into are the 3 undersubscribed ones that are equally inconvenient and equally not wanted!

   Obviously there is a statistical chance that DD will not get in to the catchment school, but I've worked out the scenarios that would mean this wouldn't happen and they are so perverse (and would indicate that there was a major schooling crisis in our town) that I am happy to disregard them.

Mandolinoparadiso - As I hope you've understood from this thread, both heads were wrong. The LA will not "shuffle people around". If you qualify for a place at your first choice that is what you will be offered. That sounds like a head who doesn't understand the system.

The second head is more worrying. He is out and out lying. If someone names that school as second or third choice, qualifies for a place and doesn't get one of their higher choices they will be offered that school. If you appeal it makes no difference whether or not you named the school as first choice. You are only allowed one appeal per academic year, so the idea that you can get a place by appealing twice is wrong, unless, of course, he means going somewhere else for Y7 then appealing for Y8 - not that a Y8 appeal would be guaranteed success. However, he has given a hostage for fortune by saying that you would definitely get a place if you name the school as first choice. If he put that in writing that would be evidence for an appeal if you did name the school as first choice.

You also have to look out for bulge years if feeder primaries get priority. This problem meant that living in the priority catchment area stopped guaranteeing a place at our catchment secondary.

I'd be furious at a Head spreading misinformation. It's great that you've learned otherwise from the knowledgeable people here.

Another thing that is annoying is, when parents making an in-year application visit the school and are told by class teacher or head that," Yes, there is a place in Y3", without being told there is already a waiting list and the place will be filled from that by the time the parents have applied. We seem to come across this quite often at appeals.

at those Heads, Mandolino.
I suspect Heads are incredibly ignorant of the Admissions process, but I think it is also true that heads love an over-subscribed school and the competitive interest that gathers around it.

In urban areas, everyone is suspicious of an undersubscribed school, the school with places left at the end of all the other allocations. And it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. On the other hand aspirational parents, vying for places, especially if some selective aspect has been introduced (for exactly this result) such as a music or sports scholarship eventually alter the demography of the school. I think some Heads may well deliberately sow the seeds of misinformation with this intent.

Agree with the others: the HT isn't correct! If you leave any spaces, then effectively those choices are "I don't mind, just put me anywhere" so then you'll have been given one of your choices! As the others have said, you get allocated the highest preference school which can offer you a place (based on their criteria).

In my area two villages fell outside the area of the school everyone went to one year because there was a subtle change to the wording on distance. They had to introduce a bulge class, and change wording because children from those villages had no alternative that was both easy to get to and any chance of fitting more pupils in.

GU24Mum - I wonder how differently the forms would be filled in if the boxes came pre-filled with 'Don't mind' instead of them being blank until they were filled in.

The head who told us to appeal twice, said that the first appeal was to the Local Authority, who would turn us down, and the second appeal was directly to the school, who would definitely offer us a place. We're a long way from this very sought-after and oversubscribed school, so I was sceptical we'd get a place and questioned him several times about this, but he repeatedly assured us that this was the system (in the presence of about twenty other parents, so lots of us got the wrong message).

That is not a mistake. That is a straight lie. There is one appeal process that applies to all appeals. They cannot have one process for a first appeal and a different process for a second appeal. And if he is guaranteeing that an appeal to the school will always get a place he is saying that the appeal panel is not independent, which is a breach of the Appeals Code. This needs to be stamped on. What type of school is this? Community, VA, VC or academy?

Odd boots they could say in grey writing 'send me to a dreadful school, perhaps 50 miles and 3 buses away' and then maybe people would replace this with a school they might actually consider.

Mandolin - that's awful! At the mass appeal I went to, the first thing they did was apologise on the headmasters behalf for telling everyone they would get a place.

HSMMaCM - I imagine there'd still be some turnips putting the same school in every box.