Dunottar/ Reigate Grammar - Merger, or what?

[quandry]

Got the letter today, and I have to say I don't really understand what is going on?
Is RGS bailing out Dunottar to save it going under?
I can't see the advantages for RGS at all?

Someone suggested that perhaps they'd make it co-ed, less academic school in the future (like a Box Hill in Reigate?) and share facilities more? (Sports fields closer than Hartswood?)

[tom2468tom]

It is still a really sad situation. Lots of people falling out over this. I hear that Lingfield ND school has a growing number of DS girls being transferred to there at Easter by there parents and that they are moving son because there are limited places available at Lingfield ND.

Do you think that there will be just a few who will leave or will the future be in doubt forever more now? If there weree too few before, when girls are taken out by their parents at Easter and, I guess, at September ....... I wonder, on the flip side, whether any new girls have joined Dunottar now that they are much more in the public domain?

I guess that the cmpaign group will probably propose going co-ed to attract more students. What do you think?

[Sheldonswhiteboard]

That's a very interesting question tom, there is a fair amount of evidence that indicates that single sex education is better for girls but co-ed better for boys.
The number of pupils at Dunottar has fallen over a number of years - is this because single sex schools have had their day - I don't think so, other single sex schools, both boys and girls appear to be holding their own?
When my DD took the entrance exam there a few years ago, we did view it as our back up school and I would agree with African up thread that whilst there were reasonable numbers of girls at both open days and exam days when we talked amongst ourselves, many parents were like us and had applied for other schools as first choices.
I wonder if Dunottar has undertaken any research as to why offers don't convert to girls joining, I would have thought this would be interesting information to enable them to take actions that make parents think of them as the first choice?
If I were making the decision I would move Dunottar to co-ed, it would increase their market and if it is true that girls will be leaving at Easter they need to get the numbers up quickly. If numbers of them are moving to ND it indicates that the parents aren't that wedded to single sex education. I think there is a market for a less selective co-ed in the area. I hope they can resolve the situation quickly to minimise the undoubted stress that this must be causing to the girls, parents and staff.

[boo97]

I, like tom, think this is such a sad situation.
I also think it is such a shame that the parents action group is focusing so much on laying the blame solely on RGS. At the risk of outing myself - I made the decision to move my daughter from Dunottar to RGS the week before the consultation period for the closure of the Dunottar junior school was announced last year. The reason for this was that my daughter was being badly bullied and the headship team at Dunottar did nothing effective to stop the bullying or deal with the culprits.
I understand that Dunottar has been fantastic for some of my daughter's friends and why they feel it is like a family but sadly this was far from our experience.
The numbers at the school have been declining for some years now so perhaps the PAG should look more closely at the school itself and why the original team of Dunottar Governors had to go to RGS for help in the first place.
Both schools are essentially businesses and I am not naive enough to think that when the original board of Governors at Dunottar went to RGS, that RGS as a business, would be not be looking at the opportunities that were presented to them. Those people that said they didn't see this coming were fooling themselves.

I now feel very sad that the good friends that we had kept in touch with at Dunottar now feel unable to talk to us because my daughter is at RGS.
My daughter is finding it very difficult to understand why she is losing the few (lovely) friends she had kept in touch with, for something that she has absolutely no control over.
Demonising the RGS pupils and parents will help not help Dunottars cause and I really do hope, for the sake of the girls that are happy at Dunottar, that the PAG succeed. I wouldn't wish the current situation on anyone.

[ChocolateWombat]

Agree with Boo. The real cause of closure goes back many years. Dunottar would never have gone to RGS unless desperate. I really believe they knew closure was very likely, but the merger bought them time to manage it better rather than have a sudden closure.

The chances of survival diminish every day, despite what the Parents group do. The likelihood of closure is in the public domain. Every day more Dunottar girls visit alternative schools and reduce the numbers. This further spooks any who haven't looked into alternatives yet. Of those who have applied for Year7, how many will now still want to come. It is a downward spiral which I think must be irreversible whatever a dedicated parent group do. And I think the downward slide has been going on for years and years. The merger in some ways delayed it (because closure would have come in 2013 without it and everyone would have left at once). By going to RGS time was bought, but the numbers jumping ship has increased over time.

These seem to be the facts. Everything else about what RGS have and have not done since the merger are side issues and don't affect the fact that closure was imminent.

[bookluva]

Chocolatewombat: 'Every day more Dunottar girls visit alternative schools and reduce the numbers': you really need to get your facts straight because this isn't really a forum for idle speculation. I work in one of the local schools and I know that most of the Heads are being incredibly sympathetic towards the girls and supportive towards Dunottar. Less than a handful of students have left since the parent consultation period started. The girls and parents are looking around local schools and are being offered places as BACK UP in case Dunottar closes. Their full intention is to stay at Dunottar if it remains open. The articles in today's Surrey Mirror show the strength of feeling by parents, who have formed an action group. These parents are paying a lot of money for their daughters to be educated so they'll be professionals doing the types of jobs that earn big money. This is Reigate, for goodness sake. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss them. It'll be very interesting to hear what they propose at the end of the consultation period. Surely you can't be so naive as to think their proposal would ignore a business plan to boost numbers. Less scaremongering and gossip, please.

[batman1]

Why have RGS decided to "pull the plug" after such a short period of "support"? Why did they decide to support Dunottar in the first place? Until these questions are answered convincingly their intentions will remain highly suspect. Not good for the school's reputation.

[nononsense1]

Chocolatewombat. You have no idea what you are saying. Come on Bookluva ! Yes Batman 1 why did RGS decide to support. I wonder. Yes less scaremongering and gossip. Those costa coffee mums again. Not going to say which Head at a Private School called them the Reigate Mafia! Agreed. Parents looking because we need a BACK UP! Dunottar was our first choice. Get a grip parents of RGS. Your school is not closing so get off this forum!

[nononsense1]

Like I say Greed .

[nononsense1]

By the way don't knock our parents group. They are working tirelessly to support this school. Giving up a lot of their time because we DONT WANT OUR BACK UP SCHOOLS as you politely suggest!

[batman1]

Every day that goes by the probability of Dunottar surviving increases and it now looks almost certain. People make a difference and the action group have some resourceful, talented and influential people. The broadcast on Radio Surrey was a case in point. All schools have their "ups and downs". I taught at the school when there were 460 girls on role. Numbers go up and down and adjustments to staff are made accordingly. There are sufficient potential parents out there to be attracted to Dunottar which has out performed many other schools in the area. This can happen again if can avoid being hijacked.

[Sheldonswhiteboard]

nononsense1, this is a public forum and this thread going by the title, was set up to discuss a matter that potentially impacted both schools so I don't know why you think you can tell RGS parents to leave the thread. I expect that there are a mixture of Dunottar, RGS and other local parents who have contributed to this thread and we all have the concern of educating our children. Of course this directly impacts Dunottar girls far more than anyone else but your lashing out at a Reigate "mafia" and "Costa Coffee mums" does your cause no favours. You need the whole community to rally around, I hope you are not in charge of the PR for the Dunottar campaign.

I wish the parents group well and hope they can agree a way forward for the school.

[Sheldonswhiteboard]

batman1 that sounds like good news.

[elsma]

Hello: you know what? This is absolutely not about the mums, dads or pupils at either school and to make it personal and a war between people who want the best for their own kids is unfortunate.
I do know a bit about this. I am a Dunottar mum and on the action group. It appears that the original trustees were hasty in their assessment and that the school was not under threat of closure. Sure it had some issues, but the overall health was OK. The RGS Group (lets keep this about the governing body and not another fine local school) stepped in because they were asked. What happened next feels uncomfortable... they did lend support but it appears to have been calculated and minimal. No money was given to bail anyone out. There was no need.
Certainly Dunottar families felt comforted that the RGS Group would give the school breathing space to fix their marketing and get themselves on an even footing. The shock came when - almost on the anniversary of the first announcement - we were told of a consultation.
Personally I cannot see how anyone would expect a school to turn itself around within one calendar year and had expected we'd have at least two or three years to make a go of it.
Upshot is, it is a small community and many people had a child at each school. And that is the key: choice. It isn't "us and them" it can't be. It must be "us". Parents who care for our own and other children. We all need to show the children the best of ourselves at times like these.

[Bolligog]

Please, all, we are all parents, we all care about our children and their education. We mustn't let this divide parents. Parents trying to find a solution to the problem do not have an issue with grammar parents, grammar pupils or grammar teachers & head. This is about finding out the facts and then, whoever you are, deciding if they sit ok with you. What we have discovered to date does not sit well with us and that is why we are seeking to learn more. Please, utilise the facilities we have provided, the website www.dunottarvoice.com, Facebook Save Dunottar School, twitter @savedunottar, email your thoughts to [email protected]. Raise your own questions, ask us, we all have the right to information and facts upon which to base our decisions and action, it will be a travesty if this divides a community.

[boo97]

Well said elsma and Bolli.
I made my comments because I feel saddened that there appears to be so much ill feeling towards RGS (parents, pupils and staff). I just wanted to make the point that it would be worth looking at what is happening at Dunottar itself, that has caused the down turn in pupil numbers - no matter how small. The Social media sites set up by the PAG did not seem like the right place to try and put forward what I hoped would be seen as constructive critisism - however crassly I put it. Despite what happened to my daughter at Dunottar, we still have very good friends there and I hate seeing all of the girls and parents going through this. I really do wish the PAG all the best and if anyone from the PAG wants to know more about my and my daughters experiences of Dunottar and why I chose to move her - feel free to message me.

[elsma]

thanks, boo - as I said it is about the right school for a child and us being able to have choice. They need different things.
I'm so sorry that your child was not happy and hope that they are now.

[batman1]

Ok, this could put an end to all of this, the implications will be serious but the truth either way will come out.

The Charities commission should be asked to carry out a full investigation as to what has happened. If there is wrong doing, sharp practice or gross incompetence then a binding directive to compensate could made.

[nononsense1]

Like your comment batman 1 .

[nononsense1]

Shelsdonwhiteboard how has this potentially impacted RGS? Really?

[ChocolateWombat]

Good luck to the PAG group. I wish them well and of course it is right to check to see if any options remain to keep the school going successfully long term. If they are then, then I'm sure this dedicated group will find them.
I don't speak on behalf of either school, as I've said before, just as an interested observer interested in demand and supply and markets for education. Because at the end of the day we are talking about a market for education. I totally get that it is emotional for people and that individuals education and careers are affected here, but the bottom line will be the market and the long term financial viability of the school.
Some posters are suggesting the demand is there. If it is, in sufficient numbers for the long term, then the school might survive. Hard though, with doubt cast over it. I would like to see it survive, because choice is good and the other school isn't right for everyone. Wanting it to work though isn't the same thing as it being viable. That is all I have ever been saying. If I'm shown to be wrong in my assessment of the situation, then I will be pleased. And whatever the outcome I am sorry that Dunottar girls and staff are going through such a horrid time.

[Sheldonswhiteboard]

As I said previously in my post, when the thread was originally set up it did potentially impact both schools. I don't think as parents we had a huge amount of communication about this so naturally both sets of parents would want to understand what this meant for them.

The latest turn of events has of course impacted Dunottar far more but there have been all manner of accusations on this thread regarding RGS, it's parents and their children.

I'm not going to comment further except to say that I am pleased from some of the other posts today, that Dunottar has got some sensible level headed individuals working for it and good luck to them.

[Jimihendrix]

It's such a pity to argue with each other. What example are we setting the children? The girls at Dunottar are being so brave. And it's nothing to do with the RGS kids. Let's hope it's resolved soon. Let's pray Dunottar is saved and RGS continues to flourish. Both schools are brilliant, very different but brilliant. My daughter loves Dunottar. I'm not sure she would thrive at RGS. That's why we chose Dunottar. But that's because we had a choice! Long live choice.
Let's find out all the facts and move on. Peacefully.

[tom2468tom]

I was reading this thread again as it is in my watch list. I realised that I thought I knew what was going on and now I dont. Nothing new there!

I am not a parent at either school yet but have been told that a growing number are leaving at Easter and more are saying that they are going to move to Box Hill in the summer. This seems such a shame but I guess Dunottar are doing something to try to keep them so it may be that I am behind the times and it will swing back the other way.

OR what are the alternatives - This is my main query - are the people in the Action Group proposing to save Dunottar or to close DUnottar and start a new school that is a co-ed comp? I saw the twitter thread and that seemed to be all about Dunottar but I also read a few comments in here about a new coed comp? Can anyone help me understand as these seem two very different idas for a school. Maybe, as I am not a parent, I have missed something that hasn't hit the press yet by way of a proposal?????

[Bolligog]

Tom, the parent action group is looking at many possibilities including those you mention. The most accurate account of the facts and current situation can be found by following @savedunottar, save Dunottar school on FB & www.dunottarvoice.com. You will then be getting information direct from source, please do follow the progress and via those sources, add your own input :)

[Bolligog]

I am very much in the midst of the Parent Action Group (PAG) and I can assure you all that there are in excess of 120 very level headed and sensible, professional people representing the PAG, and that number is growing every day. With that in mind, it is a reasonable assumption that these People would not be wasting precious time and resources if they did not have confidence that their enquiries and efforts are justified, indeed essential. Anyone who posts nasty remarks does not represent us, and should consider that in the same way that the PAG is acting in the best interests of all of our children, their remarks may damage all of our children. I assure you that we do not have an axe to grind with parents, pupils, teachers or the head of RGS. We understand and accept that pupil numbers at Dunottar have declined. We understand too that it was Dunottar that approached RGS for help. The purpose of the PAG is to research what events & decisions have resulted in proposed school closure. Alongside these enquiries, the PAG is strategically investigating the viability of a successful future for Dunottar and what form that might take. The two schools are very different and cater for different children. There is a place for both schools within our community. Consider this, if Dunottar closes, one private school will remain. If for any reason that school is not suitable for your child, or your child for it, then your child will likely need to travel out of area for comparable schooling. It may be, although unlikely, that after this situation has been fully evaluated, that indeed a future for Dunottar is not viable. But, I personally believe we must all, as parents representing either school, know that we have been in possession of all information & facts before we can accept closure with a clear conscience. We all owe it to all of our children, our community & education. Any one of us could so easily have had a child at the other school, many do have children in both. What I'm saying is, that the boot could so easily be on the other foot, and when everyone opens themselves up to the facts, they will understand why we do not accept this. RGS parents, please, it is crucial that you question & challenge too. There is no place in this situation for hearsay, rumours, gossip or chat, it is too important to accept anything less than facts, only then form your opinion and act on it. We must not allow this to divide us, we are all parents, we all want the best for our children. If you would like to find out more please visit the DunottarVoice.com website, and for specific questions email [email protected]