3 science's at GCSE - D of Ed guidance?

[dreamingofsun]

Hi

my son is about to choose his GCSE's and is keen to do 3 separate sciences, rather than the combined science course. However, the school only allows a limited number of children do this (I think this is because they don't have enough places or teachers).

Are there any regulations that i can quote them to encourage them to accept my son? I seem to remember reading somewhere that a school has to provide language GCSEs if a child wants them and was wondering if there's anything similar for science

[sodapops]

DS2 is doing triple science. His school only have about 30 places for this. When he chose his options we were asked to explain why he wanted to do it on the form, and priority was given to those DC who might need triple science in order to do their chose career or uni course. DS2 wants to be a physiotherapist so we put that down. Fortunately there were more places than DC.

Coconutty DS1 was top set for maths and science all through school and did combined science. He didn't want to do any sciences at A level so it made sense for him not to do triple science. I don't think it matters TBH, DS1 got an A* and an A, he wants to be an Army Officer.

[MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic]

I've confused myself reading this thread - do different schools do different things?

DS1 is probably taking triple science. According to the meeting we had with the school last November there is no difference in timetable time between double and triple science (covers 6 blocks) so double is easier partly because it has less work in the same amount of classroom time. I assumed this was the set up in all schools, but now (unless I've got the wrong end of the stick) it seems as if other schools do triple over 9 periods?

[MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic]

Wow. I'm going to have to prepare DS1 for an awful lot of homework in that case. I need to look into this, maybe I've misremembered the time it covers but I'm reasonably sure I haven't. Ds1 is sure it's only 6 too.

[gelatinous]

I always think it's a shame that children who aren't likely to do science A levels are encouraged not to do triple science. If they're able to do well at it they should be encouraged - it's their last chance to learn this stuff and they should take it if possible. On the other hand, bright children who do want to do science A levels should arguably consider diversifying their GCSE choices by choosing an arty subject instead - once they have science A-levels no-one will care if they did double or triple at GCSE and the A-level courses are designed to follow on from the double course - better to show you can do other things too and add another language or humanity to your GCSE selection instead of the extra science imo.

[MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic]

I'm hoping I've got it wrong tbh, that's a big difference!

[gelatinous]

MDTK different schools do do this very differently. More able groups can fit the extra work into the same time lower groups take for the double option, or some schools begin the course in year 9 instead of 10, so fit the extra time in there. Remember too that the lesson length is different at different schools. Science isn't usually too homework intensive however they do it.

[GrimmaTheNome]

On the other hand, bright children who do want to do science A levels should arguably consider diversifying their GCSE choices by choosing an arty subject instead

Bright children should be able to do the arty subject in addition to triple science if they want. DDs school they all do triple science but they do 11 plus citizenship so they all also do at least one MFL, humanity and tech and there's still time to do art, music, drama if they wish.

[gelatinous]

I was referring to schools where the 'triple'part of the science is timetabled against other options and therefore takes up a GCSE choice rather than where it can be done as an extra Grimma. That is school dependent usually.

[roisin]

At ds1's school they have 5x50 min lesson for the core science (dual award).
If they do triple they have 3 extra lessons. It amounts to nearly 1/3 of their curriculum time.

In other schools top sets do triple with no extra teaching time.

[MrsDmitriTippensKrushnic]

gelatinous Your post reminded me that the school did say that they would be covering part of the Science GCSE courses in Y9 I was listening honest, I just have a truly awful memory...

DS1 wants to study Engineering so will have to do Maths and Physics and another Science based A'Level but was seriously considering doing Drama at GCSE - he's definitely decided on Art anyway, but decided on doing an additional foreign language instead. I think he's got a nice mix of subjects, not too biased one way or the other.

[andisa]

To coconutty,

My Head of Science in a grammar school says triple science is not necessary
(even if he were to do A'level science) and some students want a broader spread of GCSEs.

Follow what he is enthusiastic about and he'll do well.

[webwiz]

Ds is in year 10 and triple science isn't an option choice you just do whichever science your group is doing. Out of six science classes, 3 are triple, 2 double and 1 takes the Btec option. They started whichever course they were on after Easter in year 9 and DS does 2 weeks of biology with a specialist teacher and then 2 weeks of chemistry etc etc. (5x50mins in a week). Even when the school only offered double science the top groups still had time to fit in an AS (science in society) as well. According to a presentation we had at school 67% of DSs year got a level 6 or above in science and most of them seem to be doing the triple.

I think its a shame to make the triple an option choice because certainly DD1 didn't know she would go on to study science at university when she chose her options in year 9.

[Milliways]

DD did triple science but it was NOT counted as an option. They started by doing and extra class after school each week - but soon dropped that and decided the kids were capable of doing it in the same time allotted to the rest of the year who were taking the double. This meant she still got to choose 4 option subjects - complete free choice with no option blocks! Don't know how such a huge school managed that one (10 form intake).

DS's school is grammar so again they all do triple and then choose 3 + a compulsory MFL.

I agree that 2 As are better than say AAB, but also, if you are say rubbish at Chemistry, you could get A A* C rather than BB if your Chem result brings all the others down.

[bigbluebus]

DS chose Triple Science as one of his options. He does & 7 1/2 hrs science a week (2 wk timetable - 7 hrs one week, 8 hrs the next). At his school they were asked to write down why they had chosen specific options and only those who wanted to follow a science base career were encouraged to choose the Triple option. By choosing this subject, he had one less choice at the other options as this is equvalent of 3 x GCSE's where as combined science is 2 x GCSE's. They were also told it was a very intensive course, hence the need for level 6 in KS3 and I'm sure they need to be good at Maths too (DS in top set doing GCSE 1 yr early).

[webwiz]

That's a lot of science bigbluebus!

DS seems to be doing fine on his 4 hours, I think the further modules (P7, B7 and C7) are challenging but DS is on the 8th of the first 9 modules and none of that has caused any problems. The science itself isn't that difficult the problem comes with the exam technique and the fact that some of the questions seem more like an english comprehension than science but that is a completely different thread

[busymummy3]

I am confused. Is seperate sciences a different paper from additional sciences? My DC does seperate sciences having just done core science -but for core sciences she still was taught the 3 sciences seperately iyswim.
Sorry that I do not know anything about the system but can they not just sit all the modules for each of the sciences then at the end decide whether to put in for an additional science GCSE or a GCSE in each seperate science then you would know whether it is better to go for 2x A* or aab? Sorry if I am not explaining myself properly or what Ive put sounds silly!

[busymummy3]

BTW my DC has Biology 70 minutes per week Chemistry 70 mins per week and Physics 70 mins per week and every week there is a 70 minute lesson of science where it will be biology physics or chemistry on a rota

[gelatinous]

It works slightly differently on different exam boards busymummy. In order to do 3 separate sciences you need to do more science papers than to get 2 GCSEs in science and additional science, but on some boards (eg AQA) it would be possible to sit all the papers as you describe and then certificate the most favorable 2 or 3 GCSEs as you wished (though it would be rather a waste of the extra work done for the separate sciences part not to use it). On other boards (eg OCR) you have to decide at the start which option you are doing as although the two options have a lot of syllabus in common the way the exams are structured is different. This will all change from 2014 onwards when all the exams will have to be sat at the end of the course at the same time as they are certificated (I think).

[asiatic]

double science is fine for virtually anything ( as long it is core and additional, NOT applied). There is no reason to to triple, it is another case of the school putting children in for something that looks good on the league table, rather than benefits the child. Most schools will allow some of the most able to do triple, but it isn't really a case of "they don't have the staff", more that there are very very few students who would genuinky benefit.

Busymummy, your suggestion isn't silly at all, but impossible with the current specs. You need to know which module you are studying for before you start, and there is not a lot of overlap between, for example, a biology GCSE, and the biology component of core science GCSE. All modules are now disbanded now anyway.

[webwiz]

I would have thought that making the majority of pupils do the double and saving the triple for the select few would be for benefit of league tables rather than the other way round.

[dreamingofsun]

asiatic - in my younger sons school i believe it is a case of 'they don't have the staff'. Why otherwise would there be only 90 places for triple science?

One of the reasons for doing triple, according to the report in nobles link, is that they are at a disadvantage when they take science A levels otherwise. And this would seem logical since they would have done less of that subject in the previous 2 years