school refusal

[rainsuncloud]

My DS started secondary school in September, was ok for first term, but then they changed some classes around and he wasn't with anyone he knew, he has as and found the change very hard to deal with. Since then his anxiety has become very bad and he doesn't trust the Teachers as they keep saying things to help him, but arn't totally true, or doesn't happen. He is now petrified of school and feels he doesn't have any friends and that no one likes him, he has been off a lot, due to not being able to phsicially get him into school. He gets hysterical and has panic attacks and gets himself in such a state and is shaking all over. He has been forced into school and the Sen teachers were helping, but have now been told not to help force him in, as they literally had to help me get him out of the car. I have seen a doctor and he has been referred to Camhs. DS wants to be home schooled, but I am unsure and nearly everyone I speak to is against it. Any one got any suggestions to help please. The Teachers do say that he is ok once he is in school, but he says he is still petrified, but just has to put up with it and shakes through some of the lessons.

[LynetteScavo]

I think the fact that he was too anxious to go to a club indicates he will still struggle if he moves schools. It sounds to me as though at he needs some sort of therapy (the private ed psych we saw recommended cognitive behavioral therapy) to help him get over his anxiety before he can move on.

I think you have to go back to basics, and stop worrying about him being in school atm, until his anxiety is dealt with. (Much easier said than done, I know)

[rainsuncloud]

Cahms are going to work with him now to try and sort out is anxiety.

As the school had sorted out support in both lessons today, I really needed him to try and get in, but I had a tremendous time trying to get him in. Senco just sit in there room and ignore me and don't help at all or give any support.

I have now got Parent Link involved and they are going to contact the school to try and get more help or to try and get work at home.

I agree about the move to school, he just couldn't cope with a new big school and all the change, not at the moment anyway.

[javo]

I have just read this thread and really hope things are improving for you and your son Rainclouds.

My DD was a "refuser" and I home educated her until she felt ready to go back into the school system towards the end of year 9 for GCSE's and A levels - she is now at uni.She still has self esteem and anxiety blips but life for her is so good compared to where we were at age 11/12.

If home educating is a possibility for you, you could start researching groups and meet ups etc in your area that could lead to friendships for your son. For example, in Storrington there is a centre called Etudeo which run all sorts of pre and GCSE classes and craft for home educated children and there are lots of parents in Sussex running sports clubs and drop in meetings during the day and yahoo group forums. There are also innovative projects (although very expensive)such as The Self managed learning centre in Brighton. You do have to pay for classes and travel to things if you decide to participate but with Home ed you can choose how little or much you want to socialise and it can give your child space and freedom again. You could go and visit some things - people are generally very friendly (you don't need to bring your son along initially)and you could decide if and perhaps what kind of home ed might work for your son.

[rainsuncloud]

Your message is very interesting, I was just thinking of home education again. Been through a lot in the past week, ds hasn't been in to any lessons, but there is a Special needs Unit and he has been in there for 2 mornings just for 20 minutes. Cahms are trying to get him in gradually now and to see if this will work, on thursday next week, he wants him to try and get to tutor group as well, ds is very anxious about this and doesn't know if he will be able to do this. Relations with the School are not good and they don't think he needs a statement. I found out today that since DS has been off, his best friend has had a terrible time and been bullied alot and wants to change classes or another school, which when my DS finds out, I really don't think we will have any chance of him going in at all. I really wanted him to last for us to get him a statement, then try for a Special School, but the school don't think he needs a statement, but Cahms do.

I seem to be thinking of lot more of Home Education now. Its just so hard on my other son, who suffers from anxiety too, but not as bad and is able to cope with encouragement.

[LynetteScavo]

OP, I think you need to sit down and talk to your older son, frankly about the effect your younger sons school refusal is having on you, and how things will be easier for the family if your DS2 is home educated. I think he will be more understanding than you suspect. Point out that you believe the best place in the long run for both of them is school, but atm, that just isn't a possibility for DS2.

If you do home ed DS2, then make sure DS1 gets lots of time with you, so jealously doesn't build up.

[ToffeeWhirl]

rainsuncloud - I sympathise! My son (ASD traits, Tourettes, OCD, social anxiety) is also refusing to go to school. This is the third time in three years that he has done this. You mention home education: in the last year of primary school, I took DS1 out of school because he was so unhappy, had him signed off school with stress and anxiety and home educated him (I didn't deregister though, so kept the support of the system). The advantage of this was that he was not under stress anymore, we learned stuff together and we enjoyed spending time together. The disadvantage was that he spent an awful lot of time on the computer (he would spend every waking hour on the computer if I let him), wasn't getting enough exercise and didn't have a social life. I tried to get him out for walks or to swim, but he wouldn't go and he wouldn't join any classes. All he wanted to do was stay at home, where he felt safe. Another disadvantage was that I had no time to myself at all. I was trying to do freelance work, but it became increasingly difficult to do that and supervise DS1 on his work (if I didn't, he would play 'Minecraft', his favourite game).

He is now at secondary school (Year 7) and he managed one term, but with increasing absences and many panicky text messages to me during the school day, poor thing. We had an EWO help him to settle in (lots of visits to school before the new term and so on) and he was allowed to go and sit with his house assistant whenever he felt unable to stay in a lesson, which happened at least once a day.

However, he has only been back for two days since the start of this term .

I'm really sorry your son's school are not helping more, rain - it sounds as if they could be doing much more. They really don't sound great, to say the least - the SENCO sounds awful (arguing with you ). We had a rubbish SENCO at DS1's primary school and it has had an adverse effect right the way through his education so far (eg, she would never, ever refer him to an educational psychologist in spite of all his needs). You say the teachers say things to help your DS that aren't totally true: I remember my son noticing that teachers didn't always follow through with their promises at primary school and it meant he then distrusted them so much that he couldn't face school at all. It was the worst thing they could have done.

If you don't trust or respect the school (and I really don't like the sound of that bullying that your son's friend is suffering), then I think taking your son out of school whilst you look for another school is a good option. However, I would be loathe to deregister him as you will then lose the support of the system. Better to have him signed off with stress/anxiety if possible.

One reason I am still trying to get DS1 back to his school is that I have been so impressed by the care shown to him by his teachers. If I had an element of doubt about them or thought my son was being bullied, I would not be thinking like this. My own attitude to the situation at the moment is this: I would like DS1 to go to the local secondary school because he is entitled to that education and it makes me angry to think that he could be denied that as a result of his special needs. It will 'take a village' to get him there though: DS1 has me to support, research and advocate for him; a psychiatrist (for medication and advice); a CBT therapist (to treat the anxiety/OCD); and is in a special needs' group at school. I am hoping that the combination of medication, CBT and a gradual approach to returning to school will succeed. I am going to ask school to provide him with an 'exit card' so that he can leave lessons whenever he wants (asked for one before he started at the school and they said no - not their finest moment, but they have been better about other things).

If this doesn't work, I will request education from the LA, which he is entitled to by law. I am considering seeking a statement for him. If none of that works and I really can't keep him in the system, I have done research into internet schools such as Interhigh and will do my best to provide him with access to non-academic subjects such as PE and drama. (I haven't told him that though!). I do wonder if he just needs a couple of years out of the school system and could go back for Year 9, when GCSE options kick in.

I am loathe to forgo the support of the 'system' though, which is what you do when you deregister your child from school.

It is incredibly stressful, I know. I try not to worry too much about the future, but I am mindful of it. I take each day as it comes.

I also have a second son. Naturally, he asked to be home educated when DS1 was off school, so your other son is bound to ask too. Whenever DS2 (6) has a bad day at school, he asks again. However, he does not have the needs that my other son has and he is generally OK at school. I have explained to him that DS1 gets 'ill' and needs time off school, which he seems to accept.

Sorry for this mammoth post. It means a lot to me to find someone else in the same position. Keep us posted.

[rainsuncloud]

Hi Toffeewhirl. thank you for your message, there are so many children in the same boat as my ds, its amazing, you just don't realise until it happens to your own.

We went to the special Needs unit this morning for 20 minutes and lady in there didn't hardly say anything, it just seemed to be a waist of time, no other children were in there. Senco and Cahms have arranged for ds to go to Tutor time as well on Thursday, but I really don't think he would go.

He really needs a statement I think so we can get him to a different school, as if he went to another school now, he wouldn't be able to cope, with all the change, new children, new school, new teachers, not knowing where the classrooms are.

Because Cahms are involved in trying to get him back into school, I think we should keep trying for the moment anyway. But Im not forcing him anymore. We are working at home, been given some work from school, but it is so boring and uninteresting, I think ds would be better off if we found work for him, as he isn't taking any of it in. I wonder if this is what happens at school most of the time, as he loses concentration so quickly if he isn't interested.

Let me know how you get on with your ds

[ToffeeWhirl]

Hi, rain, sorry to hear that the school are still being so unsupportive. Does your son have an adult that he trusts at school who could meet him and provide support when he goes in? It seems too much to ask him to go in without that.

I think you are right not to force him to go. I am doing exactly the same with my son, with the support of his CAMHS CBT therapist, who has told my son that he is in the 'driving seat' and he will decide what he can handle and when. She said he will start with the thing he finds least scary and move on very gradually from there. She suggested he stay at home for the moment, whilst we wait for his new medication to start working. She has told me to give her telephone number to the school so they can discuss this with her. I presume they have done because I haven't heard a word from them and DS has been off all this week.

DS's anxiety has, if anything, become worse over the past week or so. He refused to go out at all at the weekend. I finally managed to get him out of the house yesterday because I was helping at my younger son's school and DS1 had to come with me as there was no one at home. He coped for two hours, then I had to walk him home. He would happily stay in his room, on his computer, all the time.

I am definitely going to apply for a statement. I have been reading the websites at IPSEA, ACE and SOS SEN. It's a bit daunting, but I don't see what else I can do now.

Have you contacted the NAS for advice at all? Their helpline number is here. They have been very helpful to me in the past (my son was assessed for AS three times, but doesn't qualify for a diagnosis, although he has 'traits') and can send you relevant leaflets as well as providing advice on your situation.

Like you, I have found it hard getting work from the school. I'm trying to keep DS focused on Maths and Science, as it is worse to fall behind with that (as each module leads into the next). After that, he can choose what he wants to do - usually he goes on BBC Bitesize. However, often I don't have time to supervise him - like today, when I have work to do at home - so I'm sure he's not doing as much work as he should be. And some of the work is very dull. A teacher suggested to me that boys often prefer visual stuff to worksheets etc., so we have been watching DVDs and clips on YouTube more than doing worksheets, which my DS hates. Would that be more interesting for your son, maybe?

Are CAMHS providing any support to you at all? The CBT therapist my DS sees is a godsend - but it took about four months on the waiting list before he got to see her.

I hope you get the support you need. Someone gave me good advice, which I often bear in mind when I'm trying to get help for DS - "It's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil". So we have to keep being that squeaky wheel!

[rainsuncloud]

Hi Toffeewhirl - Thank you for your kind message. My DS does have a adult he can trust, but they are refusing to let her help him as she is 1 of his tutors and needs to go to her class, so is unable to give him her time.

We did have a meeting at the School yesterday morning when DS was supposed to go to the special needs unit and then to tutor time. The meeting was with Senco and someone from Cahms, DS couldn't talk as he felt to scared and unable to say why he was so scared to go to his Tutor group. I think as he hasn't been in hardly at all this term, he finds it to hard now, they suggested that I go outside while they take him to his Tutor room, but as soon as that happened he just grabbed my jumper and was getting distressed, he would not let go at all. In the end myself and the adult that DS likes just walked along the corridor just to outside of his classroom, but he just couldn't go in.

Now, because this happened they have now come to the assumption that it isn't School that DS is scared of, it is leaving me. I totally disagree and told them so, to me it is quite obvious why he did cling on to me, because of was petrified of going to his Tutor room. So now after half term they expect my DH to take him in and force and drag him into school, which is back where we started again.

I really feel that the primary health worker from Cahms that has been working with us has totally changed after having a meeting with Senco last week.

I just don't think they know my DS at all. Senco only actually sees DS once or twice a week, as there are 2 sites and she is mostly at the other site. I don't think we will be able to get a statement now, if that is what they are all thinking.

I am just hoping that he can force himself to go in after half term, just to see if the help that they have organised for him in the classroom will make it better for him, just to see if he can cope.

[ToffeeWhirl]

It sounds as if you are having an uphill struggle because the school are not dealing with this well at all. I'm sure you're right about your DS being afraid of school, not of leaving you, and it must be so frustrating that the school think they know better. Does anyone know anything about AS at the school? It really doesn't sound like it. If you ring the NAS, they might know if there is an autism outreach service in your area who could advise the school (I realise you will have to be tactful about that and not imply that they are rubbish - although, to be honest, they are!).

The school need to find out what your son is finding so stressful at school and make the changes necessary to accomodate him. Easier said than done, I know.

If I were in your position, I would be rapidly losing confidence in the school's ability to deal with this situation. For a start, they are not being sympathetic to you or your DS. And they don't seem to have the faintest idea how to help your son.

It's good to have a week off from the worry though, isn't it? After that, my DS is supposed to be going in to school for a little but, if he still can't do it, the SENCO will call us in for a meeting.

I hope you and your DS manage to have a restful holiday.

[rainsuncloud]

Thanks ToffeeWhirl. It is fantastic having the week off, no stress every morning, its luxury, same for you I imagine. DS didn't wake up until 12 today, he never sleeps that long. I think all those sleepless nights and nightmares have caught up with him.

[ToffeeWhirl]

I'm glad you're enjoying a holiday from stress. Yes, it is lovely not having to worry about school for a week. Interesting what you say about your son sleeping so long; my son was sleeping until 11 or 12 when he was first off school. I thought it was down to the new SSRIs he's on, but maybe it is as much about recovering from stress too. The only stressful situation we have been in this half term involved coaxing DS out of his room and into the car to travel to my mum's, where we are staying at the moment. He was too anxious to even leave his room and insisted that he couldn't come. However, now he is here, he is very relaxed and having a lovely time.

Hope you continue to enjoy your half-term break.

[Tallulah1972]

Oh gosh...where to start? I have read these messages through tears but also with a sense of relief, knowing that others are going through the same thing & that I'm not alone.
I'm new to this site, but guessing DD is daughter?

My girl started Yr7 in September & I don't think she's made a full week yet. It's got progressively worse over the months, to the point where if I've tried to force her to school, she's ended up extremely angry, confused & tearful. It has been exhausting for both of us.

In the early days at comp, we thought we'd solved the issue, but it's now got to the stage where she can't even get up. If she does manage to get ready by lunchtime, she's quiet & withdrawn & ends up curling into a ball on the sofa.
It is so upsetting & worrying to see her like this.
She now says school isn't the problem, that she likes it, but she just can't bring herself to go.
But it's not just school...she refuses to go in Macdonald's too...(maybe it's a wise thing ;) ), which makes me wonder if it's more of a social phobia. I really don't know.
School have been great & very supportive, referral to CAMHS done, appt next month. Doctor has been pretty rubbish really, best advice ever given though was not to force her to school. This took the pressure off both of us. I haven't told her what doc said & I'm still encouraging her to go, but she hasn't even made half a day this week.

It is a very worrying time for all of us. I'm worried about the effect on my son (DS?) who's only 8.

I'd love to hear how your son is now. If any progress has been made & how you're both coping.
Much love to you both because I know & totally understand what you're going through xxx

[ToffeeWhirl]

Tallulah - Couldn't read your post without commenting. (Forgive my hijack, op). I'm so sorry for your DD and you. It's so, so hard going through this. When my son couldn't go to school, his anxiety spread to other places too, so that in the end he couldn't go out at all. This could be what is happening to your DD. She may just be in such a state of anxiety that it is affecting every aspect of her life.

It's great that the school are being so supportive and that you have an appointment at CAMHS coming up. Hopefully, the therapist will be able to draw out what is troubling your DD. I am always surprised at what my DS will tell to his doctor at CAMHS that he won't tell to me. I think she just knows how to ask the right questions.

The professional advice is usually to keep children going to school no matter what, but I think there comes a point where it can make things worse. From the sound of it, your DD needs a complete break (and I'm sure you do too).

Secondary school does seem to be enormously challenging for all children, even those who thrived at primary. I know of quite a few who had terrible anxiety issues in their first year, as it is just such an enormous change. Does your DD have friends? Are you sure she isn't lonely or being bullied? Or maybe the school is just big and overwhelming. Hopefully, CAMHS will draw this out of her.

I tried to be quite strict about getting DS to still do his school work when he stayed at home, so that he didn't think staying at home was too easy. If you don't have work from school, you could just use something like BBC Bitesize. But I also made sure we had lots of relaxing, happy time together - watching DVDs, reading, chatting, cooking, etc. Sounds like your DD needs a lot of cuddling and reassurance at the moment.

[Tallulah1972]

Thank you so much for your reply, it's so reassuring to find others going through the same. We've ruled out bullying and she does have a few new friends at comp. In fact, last weekend I took her & a friend into town shopping. They had a great time trying on 6" heels! But come Monday, she was down again, curled into a ball. I thought it was just plain refusals at first, but know I'm sure it's something much deeper.

She's a bright kid, high achiever, but I know even at primary some days were a struggle, just never thought it would manifest into something more serious.

Ive been a teaching assistant for 20yrs, my DD attended the primary school where I work. It makes me wonder if this is part of the problem, although I never interferred, treated her like any other, but who knows? Maybe it could be part of the problem.

Working in a school, it's really hard to take time off, basically, I cant do it, but we do spend quality time together & when she's on form, it's a real blessing, she can be very comical at times :D

[ToffeeWhirl]

Glad you felt reassured, Tallulah. You are not alone, although it feels like it when you see all the other children going off to school cheerfully in the morning. Hopefully your appointment at CAMHS will be able to explore the reasons why your DD is finding the new school so hard. My son had CBT to help him deal with anxiety and this helped him. This might help your DD as well, particularly if her problem is generalised anxiety, rather than any specific issues such as bullying.

It must be very difficult for you not being able to take time off work. At least I was working at home, so it wasn't a problem when DS had to stay at home.

[Tallulah1972]

How old is your son now ToffeeWhirl? Has he been through school now?

[ToffeeWhirl]

He's 13. Ours is a long story. I'll try to summarise.

DS's first spate of school phobia happened when he was nine. CBT and support at school worked that time. He had a good year, then went downhill in Year 6 (bullied; teacher who didn't 'get' him). I took him out after a term to home ed.

We then had lots of support getting him into secondary: Educational Outreach worker; understanding form tutor; house manager he could visit whenever he felt anxious; CBT (again) from CAMHS. He also had a diagnosis of OCD and generalised anxiety and started taking Prozac. He had a good start at secondary, then deteriorated quite dramatically at the end of the first term. Ended up not being able to leave his bedroom because of anxiety.

We tried to get him back to school, but he had stomach aches and couldn't do it. Tried online learning through the Local Education Authority, but it didn't work for DS. Finally deregistered him from school and have been home educating him ever since. He is now much happier (as are we all because the stress levels in our family have dropped) and is even beginning to talk about maybe going back to school to take his GCSEs.

HOWEVER, he (presumably) has issues which your DD doesn't have, eg OCD, so that doesn't mean that your story will end the same way.

There is a lot of help out there and it's great if your school is supportive. I have found my contact at the Local Educational Authority to be endlessly supportive. I hope you get the same response.

A friend of mine's daughter went through the same thing and CBT worked very well. She went back to school and has thrived. Other children change schools and thrive there. Some, like my son, need to leave school for home ed. It's very individual.

Must go, but PM me or post if you need more info.

[Tallulah1972]

That's great to hear your boy talking about his GCSEs, your heart must be doing somersaults! :D It's good to hear he's looking to the future.

My DD is going to spend next week with her dad. We divorced a few years ago, still very amicable & supportive of each other & the children, but maybe this plays on my DD's mind. I'll still see her after school, but it'll relieve some of the pressure in a morning.

DD had a good natter with her Grandma on Friday & seems quite positive about school next week. Finger's crossed.

Hope you & your DS have a good week.

[bigdonna]

Hi my ds started off refusing in primary school he too had a lot of anxiety due to school.he refused to secondary schools too.we home schooled him for 8 months then trled again he eventually got assessed and had asperger s and adh d and anxiety he missed yrs of school but has been going for over a yr to a referral unit for kids who can't cope in mainstream school so he has one to one very small groups.he is still up with his peers but only does morning s .he still suffers with anxiety in other aspects like public transport.so check out your referral centres make sure it is senate to the excluded kids though good luck after I read your post I instantly remembered that horrible couple of yrs

[MaddestMother]

I'm also going through this with dd (11). She started at our local comp in September and had lots of issues with bullying and just couldn't settle. She started refusing to go in December and I moved her to a much smaller school about 10, miles away so she could have a fresh start in a more cosy environment.

At first she seemed much happier but over the last few weeks she has been getting more stressed and anxious and hasn't been able to go for most of last week. I don't think she is having any serious issues at this school but she says she just can't stand school and finds it really stressful when others are being disruptive or if the teachers tell someone off.

The school have tried to involve the ed psych but the won't get involved for 6 months. I've done a self referral to CAMHS but not sure what they can do to help.

my friend's dd has ASD and she suggested I should get dd assessed as she thinks she has some ASD traits. I don't really know what I think about this, I don't see how giving a SN label would help the current situation and if she does have these traits why has it not been noticed during primary (when she was happy & loved school).

I just feel so confused about what to do, it's so stressful and did is so unhappy I can't force her to go in. I don't know whether to pursue CAMHS and assessments or should I just remove her from school to try & rebuild her confidence.

[Dededum]

My DS1 (yr 7) ASD spent two years saying he wouldn't go to secondary school. For him it was everything and he couldn't articulate it really. Before term started we went into the school and had a private tour, took loads of pictures of the buildings so that he had a pictorial record.

First day disaster, refused to go back. But school attitude very positive, just get him in, doesn't matter how long he stays. Hates the PE kit, bring your own. In the fourth week he did a whole week. I drive him too and pick him up from school.

What has really helped us is they run a computer club every lunch time, where he is starting to make friends with boys like him.

There are schools who are more positive who have the right set up to help. Worth investigating alternatives?

[Tallulah1972]

It's so hard to know what to do for the best sometimes isn't it? You know your child's education is important, you've got the school on your back telling you they should be in school & yet you know your child's state of mind is the most important thing. Sometimes feel as though I'm being pulled in several different directions. Just want the best for my girl.

My DD text me this morning to say she'd go to school this pm, & I really think she would've done if school hadn't've closed due to boiler failure...sod's law! :D

MaddestMother, I would continue with Camhs, I've talked it over with my girl & I honestly thought she'd freak out at the idea of having to talk to someone, but, she took it really well....here's hoping it will help her find some answers.

[ToffeeWhirl]

I honestly don't think school is worth it if it makes your child ill with anxiety. Some children learn to overcome the anxiety with help, such as CBT. My son didn't. Last night, he had a nightmare that we were forcing him back to school. We heard him crying out. DH and I had to cuddle his sweaty, trembling body and reassure him that it wasn't going to happen. I promised him that we will never send him back to school unless he chooses to go. It doesn't matter to me anymore why he found secondary school traumatic. All that matters is that I will not force him to go somewhere that he finds intolerable. I home educate him now. I hope that he will take his GCSEs (or IGCSEs) with me, but, if not, I know that he can take them at college later. The important thing is that he will not have spent the next few years going through hell every day, trying to cope with an environment that he can't stand.

[miamoo12]

hi there.please help! my 12 year old daughter in year 8 is refusing to go to school... she changed school.in year 7 as hated it so much .. while we waited for new school she had 2months home ed but it was always intended as stop gap and she didn't enjoy being at home. new school.has been good so far but refusal stsrted at end of year 7 and start ed again in September when she was streamed into mostly lowish sets... school being very proactive but nothing is working... resulted in me physically trying to get her pyjamas off this morning and ended in tears for both of us and me cancelling work again! I am a single parent with ex helping on some days but never for any length of time. she is not depressed. been assessed by social services. won't give any concrete reason for not going. is clever when she wants to, very pretty and popular, funny and definitely not a victim of bullying . am at wits end so would welcome any advice. I am a mumsnet virgin !