Harrow v eton

[nokissymum]

i started a thread before about people's experiences with Harrow and got a few responses but felt maybe I needed to word it differently.

I am hoping their are mners here who have more insight into both schools, what are the differences and why one and not the other. Thank you.

[Colleger]

Boarding is the main way a school keeps pushy parents at arms lengths and pushy parents away from each other!

[nokissymum]

Don't be so utterly ridiculous small! Just because I didn't explicitly say I find the term thick offensive does it sound like I like from my response ?

I think all her comments are outrageous.

[nokissymum]

small I am not just challenging one word, I am challenging Xenia's whole attitude and comments, now if you want to challenge the word "thick" explicitly then that is up to YOU to do that with her.

YOU are clearly on the same drugs she is!

[nokissymum]

Thank you so much to colleger and all the other helpful posters before these two nutters joined.

[grovel]

This spat is silly.
We all know that thick boys go to bog standard comprehensives in the North of England.

[Xenia]

I am not the only person who has found boarding school damage (although plenty of parents do a pretty poor job at home of course too). I have spoken to a lot of boys at one of those schools. I never get the impression by the adjectives used that the process really has benefited them but we can all pick our own views and thankfully we're free to express them. The adjectives used are about coping and barriers and surviving. www.boardingschoolsurvivors.co.uk/

On the academic standards yes traditionally Eton was for the bright and Harrow not so bright. As Harrow is always in the top 80 or higher for A levels now that difference is not so important.

Presumably boarding school parents are delighed we live in a country where we can all defend our school choices and point out what we view as decificiencies and even psychiatric damage caused by the choices of others.

[Colleger]

I'd say children are more damaged in the pushy London school culture where parents breath down their DC's necks and they are tutored until they can no longer think for themselves.

I wonder how many ex school pupils would subscribe to boardingschoolthrivers.co.uk if I were to set up a sight. People only ever have something to say when they have had a negative experience, not the other way around.

[Colleger]

site not sight!

[Xenia]

I suppose the question is whether the risk of damage is worth taking and also bear in mind plenty of children are of the type to say all is well if it isn't. Up to date parent to form its own opinions. I'm not a massively anti boarding parent at all.

The damage is rejection - however you look at it, however cosy the duvets these days, however many exeats viewing your parents for a short period on a soggy field on a Saturday but not otherwise is rejection. The day to day interaction with teenagers I think is very important and the exposure to additional influences than just your peers is good and your peers have such a huge influence. I have seen children at school dinners boarding going off to smoke and teachers allowing that. If you go home to your parents each night you have an escaoe. I'm not saying children at day schools don't smoke or take drugs some do but at least there is a mixture of influence and the ability to see your children at their worst as teenagers (and we are always at our worst with those whom we love) is lost. A sort of separation grows up which is a pity.

Also you lose your freedom to a greater extent. Now it's not surprising my children chose not to board but had they wanted I wouldn't have necessarily stopped them so I'm not here as a hugely anti boarding person at all.

If those you love send you away you build up a hard carapace of coping. You know that those whom you love reject yo so that makes it harder in later life to form close loving emotional relationships. You learn to hide your vulnerability. Plenty never recover.

ANyway I only came on to the thread to point to the FT's good stats which show the current and historic differences between Eton and Harrow by way of A level results

[Colleger]

So is a parent rejecting a child when a child asks to board or if the reason to board is because a parent wants the absolute best for their child and both child and parent know that boarding will be the best for them?

What about the mother and father who work all hours while kids are looked after by nanny? I would say that is more of a rejection!

[Xenia]

No solutions are perfect. The reported damage (and my own anecdotal observations) make me of the view that boarding is pretty risky edgeplay and that most parents don't choose to take those risks.

Do children really "ask" to board? How do they know it exists unless they are told unless it is a Malory Towers/Hogwarts fantasy from which the parent ought to disabuse them? How can they understand the reality of its curtailment and its long term effects on them? Is it ever the best for a child unless home life equals abuse, to be sent away?

Just because some parents beat or rape or burn their chidlren when the chidlren live at home or even simply ignore them doesn't mean that boarding is great. The two aren't linked. They do say though that parents who are pretty poor at parenting (I've known people where neither parent wanted the child in the boarding school holidays even and a court had to force the child on one or the other and stuff like that - even the Duke of Edinburgh I was reading as a child after his mother was put away in a psychiatric unit was virtually ignored by his father for years - for people like that then yes boarding might be best but not for most children)

[Colleger]

It is very easy to make comments when one has never experienced sending a child to boarding school. In my opinion it is one of the best things a secure boy can do from the age of 13 and my son's have thrived at boarding school from the age of 8. They are frequently asked if they would prefer to be day boys at their current school and the answer is always no as they love it so much.

[hester]

I love Xenia; she is one of the joys of Mumsnet

[BelovedCunt]

arf @ this thread

[regina12]

I love Xenia; she is one of the joys of Mumsnet I do too!

It doesn't denigrate parents who choose boarding to say that one should be watchful or cautious.

Xenia is right to say that boarding is not for everyone .Even at the most elite boarding schools there is a number of children whose children sometimes appear to be there out of convenience, who have limited contact with parents and who are let down by parents who cannot visit at the last moment or who are very happy to allow children to spend holidays with friends rather than at home.

These are usually nice, successful people (well they can get their hands on some serious money anyway) but a bit lacking in the parenting department as far as I am concerned though I acknowledge that with increasingly international student bodies, parenting styles will vary between cultures. Affluent neglect is real and thriving, though.

She is right too about day to day contact - children who board bring each other up to some extent. And that's an observation, not a criticism.

Boarding suits many children from secure backgrounds and sometimes those from less secure backgrounds for whom it may represent more security than home does.

[CanYouBeHappyAnyway]

it is always right to question choices.

whether eton vs harrow, or boarding vs day.

my stepson turned down a place at eton. we have never really got a proper answer from him as to why he did. he went to King's Canterbury instead (I assume down to co-ed)

he was also not ready to board, and was a child who said he was ok, while really hating it. he was miserable for the first 2/3 years. but he would not hear of not going.

loved the 6th form, though, and really came into his own.

only time will tell whether his mother was right to push him into it (his sister was never expected to board, and in fact, was actively not allowed to when she eventually asked at 6th form to do so. nowt so queer as folk)

anyway: vaguely related to OP. Eton fab - was really lovely. has a lot to offer. one of dh's godson's (plus several brothers) are at Harrow. Am far less impressed with it as a school - both from visiting for sports/other activities, and wrt the boys they are turning into.

[meditrina]

It's a pity some of these comments are on this thread - which was about the pros and cons of two schools for those who have already made uo their minds about boarding, rather than this current one, which is about the pros and cons of boarding per se and where posters are still deciding what to do.

[zeolite]

Indeed, unlike some others, Xenia never stoops to personalized insults.

There's room for many opinions on boarding and schools. For example, I would not bother with either school as Winchester, Westminster and St Paul's appeal so much more...

[pointissima]

Xenia, are you "Lydia" on another forum?

Off topic but DS went to board at 8 as a refugee from the competitive pushy atmosphere of his London school. He is very happy boarding.

On topic, we have DS down for Eton, Harrow and Winchester. He's not a dead cert. for any of them but, according to his head, stands a decent chance with each of them. We rather take the view that if any one of them selects DS, that will be the place which is right for him. In the unlikely event that more than one of them offers him a place we would probably choose Eton first (because DS probably needs a bit more structure than Winchester imposes), with Winchester probably but not certainly second: I love its academic approach but DS is shy and sweet and could probably do with a bit of Harrovian confidence. Harrow is certainly not for thick boys these days: thick boys go to Stowe. I keep reminding myself about the beauty of the gardens, just in case.

I just feel fabulously fortunate to be in a position to worry about any of this: they are all incredible schools. I do wish, however, that fewer boys' boarding schools had gone mixed, leaving more choice for those who don't make the cut into these three.

In terms of sheer academic horse-power, St Paul's and Magdalen College School, together with Westminster, probably beat all of these

[Colleger]

We too moved our boys to country boarding schools so they could have a normal life away from the pushy London schools. Son's relaxed immediately.

[Colleger]

and it is irritating that the thread about boarding has not had these comments.

MCS does not beat Eton. Less go to Oxbridge and they are only allowed to do 3 A'levels, 4 at a push. I would say that the teachers at Eton and Harrow are superior to all those as they get results from a far less selective intake.

[BelovedCunt]

you guys need your own topic