angered by tuition for grammar school 11+

[kelway]

i was curious but does anyone else here feel the same in being frustrated with overly pushy parents who get their offspring heavily tutored (ie 3/4 nights a week after school for at least 2 years before taking the 11+). I constantly hear of girls getting into our local grammar school who were not as clever as other girls in the same class at school but who were overly pushed by their parents. Subsequently it feels like the local grammar school has been almost 'hijacked' by such people who can afford extra tuition. I always understood that grammar schools were for the more gifted student that perhaps had parents that could not afford to send them to a private school. Our local grammar school has become very elitest. i get the impression that the way i feel is pretty standard of most mothers of girls where i live (if your child isn't tutored however bright they are they stand no chance of getting into the local grammar school).

[Blu]

gazz - huge congratulations to your DS, and fingers crossed that he will actually get a place.

[Blu]

If he doesn't, hopefully his success in the exam will be a good indicator of his chances in the Graveney test?

[gazzalw]

Blu, thanks for good wishes. I am not over-optimistic about Graveney Test as I think I worked out that there will be at least 5000 children doing it.....????!!! Which is considerably higher odds than the super selectives - or do you think we're wrong on that???

[Blu]

ooh, I don't know!
We have decided against going for graveney, so you won't have DS to compete agianst, at least

SURELY not 5000?

[gazzalw]

Wow you've done your homework CustardCake! Well those stats don't seem quite so bad but then it would be a super-selective vs Graveney dilemma....hmmmm.
Where are you opting for Blu for your DC?

[Blu]

gazz - Dunraven.
It is our nearest school, so we have decided that as such we don't need to enter the feeding frenzy for a place at a school further away!

[gazzalw]

We went to have a look at Dunraven and I really liked it until I read the bit in the prospectus about needing to live within a km of the school to realistically stand a chance of getting in [sad}
Custardcake thanks for advice and noted. Trouble is DS really, really likes a super-selective he hasn't even done the exam for which is part of the issue (tears hair out....)

[Blu]

gazz - apparantly the catchment for distance in bands 1 and 2 is much wider than for 3. Many places in Band 3 are taken up by Looked After children and Statemented students so the open distance catcment is smaller, but for other bands about .9 of a mile.

[gazzalw]

That's interesting but still not much help as we must be about 2 - 3 miles away

[random12]

Some people say it's cheating to practice for 11 plus exams. This seems like a strange attitude to exams and to work.

What other exams is it wrong to revise or practice for?

I disagree with grammar schools. I went to one and live in a grammar school area. Will have to rent a house near a good non-selective and mixed gender school in a few years.

[GallicosCats]

ZOMBIE THREAD

[nicp123]

I don't think heavily tutored children @ Maths & English subjects will do well in the competitive environment of a grammar school where most pupils are naturally gifted or talented & way above average academically.
Grammar schools are not only about Maths & English subjects...
OP would you be feeling as angry if you will find out that many parents are helping their children themselves instead of using tutors?

[nicp123]

Oh!! ZOMBIE thread!
I bet OP has chilled out since :)

[JustWonderingZ]

Let me just say that I have got a Masters Degree and I failed the sample test doing it first time with no prep under exam conditions. Make of it what you will.

People are being sensible not taking chances, as the test is incredibly tough. And no, being bright is not enough. There is zero thinking time to answer questions. Unless you have seen a zillion similar questions before, you do not stand a chance.

[milkandcookie]

I think if someone can afford to give their DC the opportunity to attend a grammar or private they should not be 'put down' for it. For those that feel people spending loads on tuition gives the child an unfair advantage perhaps they should try home tutoring?

I think it would be naive and possibly negative to enter a child into a test such as this without the ample preparation needed, I know of a few kids that have ended up in a grammar school and each child had to work their socks of and not just for the one year.

[Astronotus]

This is a very old thread but still a very relevant discussion. I'm a parent of grammar and non-grammar children who were never tutored. I did buy them the Bond books to work through for a couple of weeks before the exams. We found ALL the other students in my DD's class at grammar had been tutored and many continued to be tutored throughout yrs 7 - 13, some all day Sunday. Unsurprisingly the school is very high in the league tables and will do anything to retain its Ofsted outstanding. But and it is a big but, there were many mental health problems at the school due to the stress the students were under and many sad incidents. Some parents pushed their DCs too much in my view.

[FanDabbyFloozy]

There are grammars and there are grammars. If you live in Kent or Lincolnshire etc., you can get away with light or no tutoring as a quarter go to grammar.
If it's a selective school outside a true 11+ area (e.g. London, Essex etc.), the competition is fierce as there are often no catchment areas and only 5% get through. There are few - if any - children who get in without being prepared by parents, school or a formal tutor.
There is one London superlative where tutoring is prevalent and kids travel so far they don't socialise together outside school. There are mental health issues due to the pressure the PARENTS put on the children.

[Teddygirlonce]

We found ALL the other students in my DD's class at grammar had been tutored and many continued to be tutored throughout yrs 7 - 13

Ditto, Astronuts. Indeed DS didn't have any tutoring (or helicopter parenting) through years 7-11 which is possibly why his GCSE results were less stellar than 3/4 of his (super-selective) school cohort. It doesn't make for a level playing field, does it?

Always wonder what happens to the 'children' do once they go to university - do they still receive extra tuition?

[Astronotus]

Teddy, sounds like you and I are very similar in our parenting. Yes, my DD's was a superselective in a London borough. Lucky for her she is very self-motivated and scores well. But we found there was favouritism from the school towards the continually tutored pupils, ie., being feted, picked for uni outreach sessions and other extra events. Plus the tutoring parents were the most demanding of school. There is no level playing field in education and with governments and parents obsessed with league tables there never will be.
FanDabby - I disagree, many, many parents in Kent have their children tutored for the Kent test - so no level playing field there either.

Well funded, all ability schools are the only way forward and I say that as a former advocate of grammar schools!

[FanDabbyFloozy]

@Astronotus - no I think you're right that tutoring rife in Kent too. I was responding to the usual cries of "my son did 2 papers before the Kent exams and got in". In the Greater London world I'm part of, there are vanishingly few un-prepared children.
My DD is in y7 of a selective grammar (not 11+ area) so I read these posts about ongoing tutors with interest and naivity. We will categorically not tutor our DD. We did for entrance but only for a few months, then we DIY'd.
I have heard from several parents that the top selective schools in London are full of boys and girls being tutored, just to keep up.

[Clavinova]

*Teddygirlonce
Indeed DS didn't have any tutoring (or helicopter parenting) through years 7-11 which is possibly why his GCSE results were less stellar than 3/4 of his (super-selective) school cohort. It doesn't make for a level playing field, does it

Surely you are not blaming your ds's Grade 6 in Maths GCSE (at a boys' super-selective grammar school) on other kids having tutors? Did he actually do any maths revision?

We found ALL the other students in my DD's class at grammar had been tutored and many continued to be tutored throughout yrs 7 - 13

How do these grammar school pupils in years 7-11 fit in tutoring across 9/10 subjects? Wouldn't that involve 6-8 different tutors?

[Teddygirlonce]

Well funded, all ability schools are the only way forward and I say that as a former advocate of grammar schools!

Astronuts, I think I've met my kindred spirit in you! I was very pro-grammars until very recently. I've really had my eyes opened by what happened with DS. DD not at a grammar school and theoretically not as academic. However, her school is more pushy with all the pupils and works them hard (not just the super bright ones who may or may not be getting extra help). I reckon she may end up doing better than him in her GCSEs!

The whole continued tuition 'underbelly' of education makes a mockery of some schools' stellar results in the league tables, don't you think?

I do come across parents who say they're not aware of children being tutored at the super-selectives. DS was aware of it from Year 7 and the practice continues in Year 12/13 too, seemingly.

[Teddygirlonce]

Clavinova - unnecessarily snide comment ? No I'm not. Did I suggest otherwise? I didn't. And yes he did revise but perhaps not terribly effectively (not everyone is an exam-buster extraordinaire at 15/16). And he was predicted a Grade 8 in Maths so not sure what happened in the exam. Except that actually I do - he was naturally stronger on Humanities, always struggled with Maths and Sciences.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that all pupils get tutored across the board, in every subject???? Many of DS's friends/cohort DID get tutored in what were deemed the important - for them - subjects (for future career prospects): Maths and Sciences specifically.